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Old 23 January 2006, 13:28   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Wave
by the way If 300 million Americans can't be wrong why is George Bush in power sorry couldn't stop that one
300 million Americans didn't vote for him. The number was probably more like 50 to 70 million (if that); in any case, slightly less than the number voting for Gore.

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Old 23 January 2006, 13:29   #32
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Originally Posted by Polwart
I think you will find towing regulations are harmonised across Europe. So 300m Americans are right but 450 Europeans are wrong?

It looks like this discussion has already been made.
Here is a link to a previous discussion.
http://www.rib.net/forum/sitemap/t-9328.html
The story this fellow tells would be exactly what I would envisage a runaway trailer causing. I wonder who's insurance would cover the trail of carnage left behind.

On another note, it sounds like trailer chains "secondary coupling" are permitted under the European EC94/20 rules but are not required.

I just can't see how dropping a trailer into following traffic can be thought to be safer then keeping it attached. Once that tongue drops into the pavement at 60 mph, brakes or not, the trailer and everyone behind/beside it is history.

I have had a four place enclosed snowmobile trailer with four sleds, around 7500 lbs detach on a steep and rough logging road in the winter. Slow speed mind you, but it was a simple matter to rehook. Without chains, it would have slid backwards, perhaps over the embankment, regardless of brakes or not. The thought of it detaching loose on the highway is the stuff of nightmares. I've never seen it happen, however the chances of a successful ending would be much higher with safety chains then without.

IMHO of course (and all us North Americans who probabaly do own about 300 million trailers, I own four and my brother in law has six so we make up for a few who have none.)
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Old 23 January 2006, 19:50   #33
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In the UK, a means of preventing the separation of the trailer from the tow vehicle is allowed but it must also prevent the trailer tow hitch from contacting the ground so that there is still steerage. However, this method should not be employed along with a trailer breakaway cable. Don't ask me why. However number two is, the traffic police I spoke to did not know this. So, if it is not well known you take your chance.
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Old 24 January 2006, 13:42   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwalker
the traffic police I spoke to did not know this. So, if it is not well known you take your chance.
Not sure I understand. If you get stopped with a perfectly legal towing arrangement (and you KNOW for sure its legal) then whats the traffic policeman got to do with it? He's a policeman not a judge and jury. So if you get stopped and KNOW you are right then you're not really taking a chance at all - other than possibly having to go to court and make the aforementioned traffic cop look stupid (although its unlikely to get that far as when the fiscal/CPS get in touch you would simply write to them highlighting the relevant regulations showing you are right and they would go away).
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Old 25 January 2006, 03:01   #35
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I have actually seen a caravan flip onto its side & take a fully loaded land cruiser with it, without coming un-hitched and aftermath of other incidents where trailers were still attached. In 33 years of towing I have not had or seen a trailer come un-hitched while going down the road (thatís not to say it doesnít happen, I just think itís probably rarer that trailers flipping the tow vehicle) It would be interesting to know how many of these types of incidents happen during the course of a year, & in the case of trailers coming un-hitched was it down to bad maintenance?
So come on, does anyone have any facts & figures?
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Old 25 January 2006, 11:46   #36
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Safety chains are flexible and won't flip a tow vehicle. The trailer can be laying on its side and still not apply a rotaional force to the tow vehicle through the chains. In the instance above, torque from the trailer on the hitch itself likely flipped the vehicle, but since it didn't detach, this would happen with chains or no chains. The only instance I would want to the trailer to detach is if it was sliding sideways and was dragging you into a ditch. I'm surprised that people would consider allowing the trailer (and everyone behind it) to be so easily written off without even a fighting chance of recovery that a set of safety chains crossed below the hitch will give you.

There was already three instances of detached trailers described on this forum, one leading to a death of a small child on a ramp, the other two leading to carnage on the road. What more do you want, use safety chains!!!.

(I guess this topic has become an issue for me, I find it inbelievable that people think safety chains are unneccesary. I would have a hard time forgiving someone who killed someone because of lack of something so simple.Over here, it would be criminal negligence)
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Old 25 January 2006, 12:07   #37
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I don't think that anybody on this forum doesn't use safety chains/strops.

The issue is in the UK there is some doubt over the purpose of the chain/strop.

Some seem to consider the strop as something that is;

1) designed to apply the brakes then snap, bringing the trailer to a halt and allowing the driver of the vehicle bring the vehicle to a stop seperately

or

2) designed to keep the whole rig as one item in the case of an accident.

To my mind nobody has conclusively given me an answer either way about this.

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Old 25 January 2006, 12:47   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogue Wave
monkey correct!

Emnployer norty not overkill just kill

Honest upon hitch separation you have no directional control of trailer so it can go one way and the car goes another Trailer will flip car over very easily or spear the rear end and possibly fracture the tank.

You owe the monkey a Banana

Sorry

I'd say that was a conclusive answer, whether you choose to accept it or not is up to you!

Also Chris your original question was is the Monkey correct about the chain and the answer is conclusively yes.

Unfortunately that Silver tounged devil Bigsurf is putting a strong and eloquent case for his side, which has certainly got me thinking. I guess the answer lies within the caravan club
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Old 25 January 2006, 12:52   #39
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Plus one has to imagine how many people have the right load straps holding their rib to the trailer. Anybody seen that Lethal Weapon Movie where they have a head on and the other car has a surfboard on the roof??? It ends up in the guys face!!

I suspect a 6m rib would do a lot more damage!

I have emailed somebody at the Met Police for a definative answer on the break or brake away cable question.

I will paste the reply on the forum when it comes back.

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Old 25 January 2006, 12:54   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJL
The issue is in the UK there is some doubt over the purpose of the chain/strop.
I'm not quite sure where the "doubt is"..

A breakaway cable is for braked trailers and is designed to activate the trailer brakes then part contact between the tow vehicle and the trailer (normally by straightening out the snap hook) in the event of a tow becoming detached

A secondary means of coupling (Normally chain for heavier trailers and wire rope for lightweight trailers)) is provided for unbraked trailer to provide some control over the trailer in the event of primary coupling detachment.

American trailers (correct me if I'm wrong please American cousins) have chains that cross over (i.e. two chains) to support the nose of the trailer off the tarmac in the event of separation of the primary coupling. That's the arrangement on the only US trailer I had.. it was unbraked..so I can't comment on there braked trailers.
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