Towing a trailer on business

Christopher · 06 December 2001, 20:50

If any members tow their RIB connected with any form of business, do they know that if the combined weight of both the towing vehicle and trailer, amount to 3500kgs or above they are obliged by law to have a tachograph fitted to the towing vehicle, and to comply with all the tachograph rules regarding hours driven, rest breaks etc. It does not even matter if you are towing an empty trailer, it is the plated gross carrying weight that is taken into account regardless of anything on the trailer. Not only should you have a tachograph, but because you are on business you also have to have an "Operators License", which involves a huge amount of red tape.
My company and van driver have this week been served 10 summons's for not complying with the ruling that all Tachograph discs once used have to be handed into the companies office within 21 days of use. The van driver had them in the glove compartment for safe keeping. Two police officers drove a round trip of 80 miles to serve the summons, with would you believe 3 days notice to appear in Salisbury magistrates court. Running a business is no fun!!!

John Kennett · 06 December 2001, 22:26

Sounds like certain police officers have got too much time on their hands!

If it's a company van, isn't the glove compartment company property?

John

Alan · 07 December 2001, 08:01

that we can sleep safe in our beds at nights now the boys in blue have nabbed to Somerset Tachograph not filling them away correctly in the office gang.

Keith Hart · 07 December 2001, 08:59

Well folks, let's hope that the police in sunny Worthing are putting at least as much effort into finding 'Grey Ghost'. However, somehow I suspect not!

"Barry Templeman's 7m BWM Rapier, Grey Ghost, was stolen from Worthing, Sussex over the weekend. "

Ah, on second thoughts perhaps if the theives drive through Christophers locality (Somerset) those same two police officers will notice their trailer, stop them to check the tachograph and get them for the theft!!!!!!!!

Ah well, we live in hope.

Cheers

Keith Hart

seajay · 21 December 2001, 20:46

Depends what you consider to be important!

Whilst I'm sure the officers would be pretty pleased with themselves if they came across a stolen RIB, property is at least replaceable. By contrast, the parents of the kids seated in the rear of a car that gets shunted by a commercial vehicle because the drivers asleep (having driven for 18 hours) have no such luxury.

Its a balance..and you can't please everyone all the time........

seajay · 21 December 2001, 21:16

and to avoid any suggestion of this being personal........I'm not implying for one second that either you, your company, or your driver have been involved in such an incident......but trust me...it happens!

David Perry · 22 December 2001, 07:43

Well said Chris H!
I was loath to reply innthe first instance as it seemed that like many others, people were missing the point and having a stab at the boys in blue. They, the boys, have a variety of different jobs to do, enforcinig rules/laws not made by THEM but by the people that we(depending on your vote) put in govt. Most of our legislation is built on common sense and for a reason. Yes the boys would lve to hear about stolen boats, and it is even possible that as they stop a vehicles for a potential tach offence they find a stolen boat, then again if they were not to stop the vehicle, they would not! Confusing..........not really, it's all a part of the mix that the boys deal with every day.
Am I one? Who knows, but if any of the readers of this forum are boys in blue, have a happy and safe Christmas and don't get too hot under the collar about what might be happening to the best service in the world next year. Work that one out!

John Kennett · 22 December 2001, 09:50

I don't think that anyone here has really had a go at the police generally -- it's been remarkably well mannered so far!

However, given the well documented pressures on police time and resources it just seems that their efforts may be better concentrated elsewhere.

No one has suggested that drivers' hours regulations should be scrapped, but the efforts being taken to secure a prosecution for what amounts to poor admin (as far as I know there is no suggestion that the driver had exceeded his hours) appear to be somewhat excessive.

John

Keith Hart · 22 December 2001, 15:59

John

I'll tell you why they do it, but please don't let on who told you!

The Home Office (under the current government) have set certain targets as a measure of performance for each police force and police officer. One of these targets is to get a higher 'clearence' rate for offences/crime. To investigate a crime such as a burglary or assault is time consuming and expensive and also difficult to get a clearence. However with traffic offences, then everyone reported is also a 'clearence'. If the offence were not reported it would not even appear on the statistics. So every traffic offence is a bonus and helps keep the 'clearence rate' up! It's called massaging the figures. It's the easy make the force performance look better.

The more unsolved crime there is, the more pressure on the force to report people to get their 'clearence rate up'. It's simple. Spend 4 hours booking motorists and get 20 'clearences' or spend 4 hours investigating a burglary and most likely get no clearences.

The answer is simple. Remove the target and let the police get on with what the public and they really want them to do, investigatine real crime and making our homes and businesses a safer place.

Now, let me point out that my previous post on this matter was done with a sense of humor . I appeared to have failed miserably. In future I will stick to much lighter matters and leave politics alone.

Of course as I have an inflatable boat that fits in the back of my estate car non of this applies to me anyway!

Keith (This is the most humourless posting I've ever done) Hart

PS I promise that in future I will not be this serious again.

miketdt · 05 January 2010, 20:40

CHRISTOPHER, I think most of what you say is correct, apart from the bit about operators licenses, if the towing vehicle is 3.5 ton max gross then no operator license is required when towing a trailer with a MAM of 3.5 tons. If the towing vehicle exceeds 3.5 ton then yes an operators license is require. In some cases no tachograph is require if being towed by a boatbuilder or mechanic operating under Domestic Drivers Rules within 50 miles of his home base if his main days duty is repairing boats as to delivering them.

chewy · 05 January 2010, 20:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keith Hart

The answer is simple. Remove the target and let the police get on with what the public and they really want them to do, investigatine real crime and making our homes and businesses a safer place.
PS I promise that in future I will not be this serious again.

Unlike the local plod which is stopping people from bagging salt to carry up the road to clear it. Its not for "personal use" apparently.
Fecking jobsworth.

Jizm · 06 January 2010, 11:41

I have a friend who uses a van for towing (under 3500kg) and he has been pulled in by VOSA a few times. They contradict themselves each and every time, not convinced they are sure of the rules themselves.....

Dry_Doc · 08 January 2010, 12:01

Blimey, you dragged this one up from the depths!!! (check the OP date!)

I looked into this last year: http://rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=28857

As far as I can make out, if the trailer ULW is under 1020kg then it's classed as a 'small' trailer, and NOT counted for the purposes of calculating the GTW. This means that unless the tow vehicle is over 3500kg, then you DON'T need a tacho/op licence for towing (most) boat trailers.

Also, dual purpose vehicles (i.e. 4 wheel drives with at least 4 seats and under 2040kg ULW) are exempt from the op licence regs.

wavelength · 08 January 2010, 13:03

Quote:

(This is the most humourless posting I've ever done)

wow the brackets are back! Nice to see you on here Keith.

Quote:

Remove the target

Oh performance indicators! I remember them well. Nothing about doing the real job more a case of brownie points for working with other agencies etc etc . Doesnt get the job done but good for ingratiating yourselve with management and improves promotion chances

Dave (retired from all that crap!) M

www.wavelengthtraining.co.uk

Jizm · 08 January 2010, 15:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dry_Doc

Blimey, you dragged this one up from the depths!!! (check the OP date!)

just noticed that...

wavelength · 09 January 2010, 15:30

aaargh-just replied to a post from 2001 --which I sorta read as 2010. Now I know why they gave early retirement -it was just before I became a complete liability (or just after depending on your point of view!)

The Garfish · 09 January 2010, 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavelength

just replied to a post from 2001 --which I sorta read as 2010.

nyne lorng yeers an nuffinks chaynjed.

yorr stil torkin bollux

garF

wavelength · 10 January 2010, 14:13

Quote:

yorr stil torkin bollux

yup - good thing is lotsa people pay me to talk bollox.

anyways its probably sommat to do with that bottle of drambui in a certain drinkin establishment wot some folk on here reckon was theirs-hic

JSP · 10 January 2010, 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by wavelength

yup - good thing is lotsa people pay me to talk bollox.

anyways its probably sommat to do with that bottle of drambui in a certain drinkin establishment wot some folk on here reckon was theirs-hic

ohhhhh Drambui........

SW Boat Transport · 18 January 2010, 21:15

Just to clarfiy a few points, as I have been doing a lot of research on this recently:

1. Any vehicle and trailer where the combined GVWs exceed 3500kg used commercially requires a tachograph.

2. Any vehicle and trailer where the combined GVWs exceed 3500kg (the weight of any trailer not more than 1020 kg unladen weight being discounted) used commercially requires a operators licence.

In practice, this means that almost everyone towing commercially (even if only towing an empty trailer) requires a tachograph. Depending on what is being towed (a tripple axle boat trailer for example could easily have a ULW over 1020kg) a operators licence will also be required.

The penalties for non compliance are harsh, including a £5000 fine and having the vehicle impounded and crushed.