Ridiculous commercial towing limits.

[Ribshop]

We were just about to go out and purchase a Land Rover Defender 90 hard top with a towing capacity of 3500kg and weighing in a 1785kg but reading through the commercial towing laws if we did not want to fit a tacho this would limit us to a trailer limit of 1715kg so not to brake the 3500kg max gross vehicle weight.
If we bought a Vauxhall Viano that could not pull the skin of a rice pudding, because it only weighs 1300kg and is plated to tow 2200kg we could tow 2200kg. Is it just me or is this madness?

There is a clause that if you are within 50k of your base you can ignore all of this providing the gross weight does not exceed 7500kg but this is interpreted differently on several websites. Any ideas?

[mick]

Madness can you get round it by fitting a tachometer

[ROG.]

I assume this is about tacho and driver regs and not O licence regs?
NEW VOSA GUIDE GV262-03

Exemptions and derogations
Vehicles or combinations of vehicles with a maximum
permissible mass not exceeding 7.5 tonnes that
are used:
... for carrying materials, equipment or machinery
for the driver’s use in the course of his work.
These vehicles shall be used only within a 50 km
radius of the base of the undertaking and on the
condition that driving the vehicle does not constitute
the driver’s main activity.

Depends on what the driver is actually doing
If the driver tows a digger to a place and then uses that digger all day and tows it back again within 50 km of base then no tacho required as it does not come under EU regs


I also think you are using the wrong weights in your calculation
I think you are using the unladen/kerb weights where you must use the GVW weights of the towing vehicles

The GVW plus the trailer plated MAM = the total you are seeking

[Ribshop]

We don’t want to fit a tacho as my understanding is if one is fitted it has to be used all the time and not just when the GVW is over 3500kg.

We would be delivery and collecting boats so it would not be the same as a digger driver.

[C2 RIBS]

Keiron did you read this useful post from SW RIB Charter
Changes in legislation for commercial towing
We are all in between a rock and a hard place over this legislation. I think with your business you will be screwed for the 50k limit avoidance of fitting as it will not be for your use but a customer end product.

[ROG.]

Originally Posted by Ribshop

We don’t want to fit a tacho as my understanding is if one is fitted it has to be used all the time and not just when the GVW is over 3500kg.

We would be delivery and collecting boats so it would not be the same as a digger driver.

Nowhere near the same - that is transporting goods so comes under EU driver regs

When the B category vehicle is not hitched to the trailer then it does not come under EU driver regs BUT......

If the vehicle has been used for towing during that shift then it is best to keep with the tacho and select out-of-scope

Any out-of-scope driving or any other work done during a WEEK (sunday midnight to sunday midnight) when any EU regs driving has been done MUST be officially recorded so that the authorities can check that you have had the required weekly and daily rest

Officially recorded means using a seperate analogue card for each day with your name ,date, start & finish times on each one OR inputting all that info into the digitacho OR making daily printouts from the digitacho and putting that info on it

Domestic regs records are also accepted in the UK for those vehicle which come under those rules

Regarding O licencing -
I believe there is a move afoot to change the trailer laws for the current exemption for trailers under 1020 unladen weight to ALL trailers but I stand to be corrected on that

[SW RIB Charter]

Originally Posted by Ribshop

We were just about to go out and purchase a Land Rover Defender 90 hard top with a towing capacity of 3500kg and weighing in a 1785kg but reading through the commercial towing laws if we did not want to fit a tacho this would limit us to a trailer limit of 1715kg so not to brake the 3500kg max gross vehicle weight.
If we bought a Vauxhall Viano that could not pull the skin of a rice pudding, because it only weighs 1300kg and is plated to tow 2200kg we could tow 2200kg. Is it just me or is this madness?

There is a clause that if you are within 50k of your base you can ignore all of this providing the gross weight does not exceed 7500kg but this is interpreted differently on several websites. Any ideas?

It is the GVWs that are important here, not the unladen weights. A new Land Rover 90 has a GVW of 2505kg. This means that if you tow a trailer with a GVW over 995kg behind it you will need a tachograph. The Vauxhall Vivaro had a GVW of between 2770 - 2830kg depending on engine chosen. This means you can only tow a trailer with a GVW of 780kg - 670kg without needing a tachograph.

There is an exemption on the tachograph regulations for a vehicle/trailer combination with a combined GVW not exceeding 7500kg GVW which is used to carry materials, equipment or machinery for the drivers use in the course of his work within a 50 km radius of base and where driving is not the driver s main activity.

If you are transporting goods belonging to other people, you will also need an operators licence.

[SW RIB Charter]

Originally Posted by ROG.

Regarding O licencing -
I believe there is a move afoot to change the trailer laws for the current exemption for trailers under 1020 unladen weight to ALL trailers but I stand to be corrected on that

The exemption from operator licencing for trailers with an unladen weight of upto 1020kg was amended on 4th December last year. It now only applies to operators of vehicles that only carry their own goods in connection with their trade or business. If the combined GVW of your vehicle and trailers exceeds 3500kg and you are carrying goods for other people, you will need an operators licence.

[ROG.]

Originally Posted by SW RIB Charter

The exemption from operator licencing for trailers with an unladen weight of upto 1020kg was amended on 4th December last year. It now only applies to operators of vehicles that only carry their own goods in connection with their trade or business. If the combined GVW of your vehicle and trailers exceeds 3500kg and you are carrying goods for other people, you will need an operators licence.

Thanks for that

[Seabay]

Having been involved in Motorsport for many years,

I am noticing the Service barges (Vans/Landrovers/Estate cars carrying Tyres, Tools and teapots) towing Rally cars on trailers that they all have stickers near the drivers doors that say " Not for Hire of Reward " When I asked a few drivers they said that it was to avoid fitting a Tacho. Most of these travel the whole of the UK. So aslong as you dont charge for your towing duties wouldn't it be the same?