Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 02 December 2009, 09:08   #11
RIBnet admin team
 
Poly's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: imposter
Make: FunYak
Length: 3m +
Engine: 2 stroke YAM 20 HP
MMSI: 235089819
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,112
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9D280 View Post
A trailer to take a boat of of that size will be in the region of 300Kg....
And I'm guessing you're talking a normal trailer not one home built from what looks like seriously heavy weight box section with a double axle.
__________________
Poly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 December 2009, 10:38   #12
Member
 
m chappelow's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: yorkshire
Boat name: little vicky
Make: avon ex RNLI
Length: 3m +
Engine: tohatsu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,310
it still needs a safety chain fitted between the car and the trailer in case it comes off , and as said unbraked trailers can only be used if its half the kerb weight of the car ,,eg ,, car 1000kgs trailer 500kgs ,,,,, even with brakes fitted its only weight for weight,,,,,,car 1000 kgs ,,trailer 1000kgs unless its a landrover or something ,also mudguards as was said earlier from (9D280)the old law that the boat can be used if it covered the wheels went out in the 1990s, and it will need some form of suspension and not solid axles as used with launching trollys ect ,,,,though taking a closer look at your pic ,,it looks like there maybe indispenion type units bolted on , it may even need amber side reflectors and forward facing white marker lights if its a lot wider than the car .at one time boat trailers were exempt from having forward facing white marker lights if only used in daylight hours but as with the old mudgurd law it was changed a good few years back .,,,,and yes its suprizing how much damage can be done to a boat with chippings flying up at the hull.
__________________

__________________
m chappelow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 December 2009, 12:15   #13
Nic
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Length: 8m +
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3
Safety Chain

[QUOTE=m chappelow;328957] it still needs a safety chain fitted between the car and the trailer in case it comes off

Just to clarify the above-a lot of people are of the misconception that the safety chain is a secondary measure to keep the trailer attached to the car-its not,firstly it should be a cable not chain and should be attached to the hand brake mechanism and looped over the tow ball,its designed that if the trailer does come detached from the tow ball the the pull on the cable applies the hand brake the cable then snaps allowing the car to cary on safely with hopefully the wayward trailer stopped safely by its own brakes as apposed to careering off and hitting something.On an unbraked trailer a small cable/chain could be used for a safety measure but would sure make a mess of the back of your car if the trailer came of the ball but at least the trailer would not fly off and hit someone.Hope this Helps Nic
__________________
Nic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 December 2009, 12:34   #14
RIBnet admin team
 
Poly's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: imposter
Make: FunYak
Length: 3m +
Engine: 2 stroke YAM 20 HP
MMSI: 235089819
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nic View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by m chappelow View Post
it still needs a safety chain fitted between the car and the trailer in case it comes off
Just to clarify the above-a lot of people are of the misconception that the safety chain is a secondary measure to keep the trailer attached to the car-its not,firstly it should be a cable not chain and should be attached to the hand brake mechanism and looped over the tow ball,its designed that if the trailer does come detached from the tow ball the the pull on the cable applies the hand brake the cable then snaps allowing the car to cary on safely with hopefully the wayward trailer stopped safely by its own brakes as apposed to careering off and hitting something.On an unbraked trailer a small cable/chain could be used for a safety measure but would sure make a mess of the back of your car if the trailer came of the ball but at least the trailer would not fly off and hit someone.Hope this Helps Nic
Nic - since we are in fact discussing an UNBRAKED trailer in this thread "a lot of people" are correct. There are no handbrakes to apply so the type of mechanism you describe is innapropriate. HOWEVER a chain (or secondary coupling as it is refered to) which keeps the trailer joined to the car is permitted on any trailer up to 1500 kg (well beyond the 750 kg brakes requirement).
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roads/vehicles/vssafety/requirementsfortrailers
For trailers up to 1500kg laden weight it is permitted to use a secondary coupling, which in the event of separation (NOT failure) of the main coupling will retain the trailer attached to the towing vehicle, prevent the nose of the trailer from touching the ground and provide some residual steering of the trailer. Above 1500 kg laden weight the trailer must be fitted with a device to stop the trailer automatically in the event of separation (NOT failure) of the main coupling and this is normally achieved by a breakaway cable attached to the parking brake mechanism - the trailer becomes detached from the towing vehicle.
The use of such a secondary coupling (not a brakeaway cable) is compulsary on unbraked trailers made after 1997.

Also its preferable (according to the NTTA) not to simply loop the cable (on a braked system) over the tow ball as its less secure than attaching to the bracket itself where this is possible.
__________________
Poly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 December 2009, 13:15   #15
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: NW& wherever the boat is!
Boat name: depends on m'mood!
Make: Humbers/15-24m cats
Length: 6m +
Engine: etec130/big volvos
MMSI: many and various
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,815
Quote:
even with brakes fitted its only weight for weight,,
what is the reference source for that?
__________________
Dave M
www.wavelengthtraining.co.uk
wavelength is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 December 2009, 19:10   #16
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: NW& wherever the boat is!
Boat name: depends on m'mood!
Make: Humbers/15-24m cats
Length: 6m +
Engine: etec130/big volvos
MMSI: many and various
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,815
from direct gov site:

Quote:
Category B vehicles may be coupled with a trailer up to 750kgs MAM (allowing a combined weight up to 4.25 tonnes MAM) or a trailer over 750kgs MAM provided the MAM of the trailer does not exceed the unladen weight of the towing vehicle, and the combination does not exceed 3.5 tonnes MAM.
Quote:
For driver licensing purposes there are no vehicle/trailer weight ratio limits for category B+E.
so on my B+E licence it seems I can tow up to the vehicle's weight limits as per manufacturers plate and my 2tonne or thereabouts vehicle has a max towing weight of 2.7tonne. Provided of course I stay within the gvtw-gross vehicle train weight. (being of the old school I will stay with weight and not mass)
or perhaps I'm wrong eh?
__________________
Dave M
www.wavelengthtraining.co.uk
wavelength is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 December 2009, 20:15   #17
Member
 
m chappelow's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: yorkshire
Boat name: little vicky
Make: avon ex RNLI
Length: 3m +
Engine: tohatsu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,310
i can,t find any reference on the net now either Dave ,lol, only advisory of 85% of the cars weight or 100% if experienced driver on a caravan web site , but it did used to be the case , it was also printed in one of the commercial towing year books may have been F>T>A or road haulage asso ,, looks like the laws changed going by the Gov site ,,,,,,,,it used to be or still is that an unbraked trailer also has to have its max weight in kgs painted on the nearside of the trailer ,though like everything else nowadays suppose its how VOSA or the local police interprit or see it in their own eyes ,,,
__________________
m chappelow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 December 2009, 03:57   #18
Nic
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Length: 8m +
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polwart View Post
Nic - since we are in fact discussing an UNBRAKED trailer in this thread "a lot of people" are correct. There are no handbrakes to apply so the type of mechanism you describe is innapropriate. HOWEVER a chain (or secondary coupling as it is refered to) which keeps the trailer joined to the car is permitted on any trailer up to 1500 kg (well beyond the 750 kg brakes requirement).

The use of such a secondary coupling (not a brakeaway cable) is compulsary on unbraked trailers made after 1997.

Also its preferable (according to the NTTA) not to simply loop the cable (on a braked system) over the tow ball as its less secure than attaching to the bracket itself where this is possible.
Hi The point I was trying to make and you've probably seen it is when people put a massiff chain connected to the brake lever connected to the tow bar with no breakaway possibility.Also I refered to 'over the tow ball' as I only use Swan Neck type hitches which have no accessible bar/brackets.I was not trying to start an argument-cheers.On the point of Towing weights I think you will find that on modern vehicles it is now defined by the plated towing weight from vehicle,I sell Mercedes vans and I can now order a 3.5t GVW Sprinter(Fitted with factory tow bar) that can tow 3.5t allowing a GTW of 7 Tonnes,but would then require a Tacho for commercial use,but does not come under operators license requirements-only a driving license that allows you to drive up to 7.5t.hope this helps.Nic
__________________
Nic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 December 2009, 04:27   #19
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: Wildheart
Make: Humber/Delta Seasafe
Length: 5m +
Engine: Merc 60 Clamshell
MMSI: 235068449
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,610
Yeah, it's two different systems - the breakaway cable for BRAKED trailers is exactly as you describe.

Unbraked I think the therory is if the coupling lets go, it stays vaguely behind the towing vehicle., and only vaguely works due to the lower mass of the trailer.

And yeah, swan necks are a pain in the @rse for anything other than the coupling & looking neat when no trailer attatched........
__________________
9D280 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 December 2009, 04:30   #20
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: NW& wherever the boat is!
Boat name: depends on m'mood!
Make: Humbers/15-24m cats
Length: 6m +
Engine: etec130/big volvos
MMSI: many and various
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,815
Quote:
but it did used to be the case
I dont think so-in a previous life in a galaxy far away I did a lot of road traffic law for a period of a year or so, mainly hgv stuff (sorry Nos!). I have also towed trailers and caravans for far too many miles and have always worked on the gvtw max towing weights and axle weights off the manuf plate. The restriction you mention seem to apply if you have a licence obtained in the near past and have not taken the towing test.
__________________

__________________
Dave M
www.wavelengthtraining.co.uk
wavelength is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 22:27.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.