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Old 23 March 2009, 13:41   #11
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Originally Posted by Dry_Doc View Post
Are VOSA staff really that prickly/ignorant of their own rules?
Yes.
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Old 24 March 2009, 03:33   #12
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Tacho required is gross weight over 3500Kg

If you are towing for commercial gain - and that includes towing your boat to a site where it will go out on charter and the whole rig (tow vehicle and trailer) exceeds 3,500Kg a tacho is required.
You can tow your personal boat using your private car without a tacho even if you exceed 3,500Kg
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Old 24 March 2009, 06:07   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Hill View Post
If you are towing for commercial gain - and that includes towing your boat to a site where it will go out on charter and the whole rig (tow vehicle and trailer) exceeds 3,500Kg a tacho is required.
That's not what the regs say, according to the documents in the links that I posted, and when I phoned VOSA for confirmation:

If the ULW of the trailer is under 1020Kg then it doesn't count towards the weight calculations.

It's also in the legislation, just rather more difficult to extract:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1995...0023_en_6#sch1

Schedule 1, 3(1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SDGANDER
Was this the Beverley VOSA office? I had some dealings with them about 14 months ago on a licensing matter and it was a nightmare - they gave me the wrong documents, issued something they weren't meant to and cost me 2 unnecessary return trips of about 80 miles to sort out their mess as it couldn't be done over the phone.

W.
No, the national VOSA office.
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Old 24 March 2009, 06:12   #14
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Yes.
Oh.

I suspect they're also like Police officers, in that they don't like it if you try and convince them that they are in the wrong?
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Old 24 March 2009, 11:50   #15
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Originally Posted by Dry_Doc View Post
Oh.

I suspect they're also like Police officers, in that they don't like it if you try and convince them that they are in the wrong?
Traffic wardens would be a closer comparison.

Small men with little willy syndrome who think they are god.

Some are OK, but in my experience it's generally the older ones.
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Old 24 March 2009, 18:34   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nos4r2 View Post
Traffic wardens would be a closer comparison.

Small men with little willy syndrome who think they are god.

Some are OK, but in my experience it's generally the older ones.
Aint that the truth

Dry_Doc.. at 7am this morning I wrote a post saying that whilst I agreed with Nos you should have a bit of paper quoting your knowledge of the regs,. I didnt post it due to my lack of time to check my thinking,.. and you made a point in one of your own posts later as it turns out, which was similar to my intention which was , to state that 'they' dont like getting told the rules by a 'lesser' mortal and I can vouch for that .. they dont.

I believe what you post is correct however Dry_Doc.. as .. save for the new driver hours regulations and unladen trailer weights, its what I had come to understand, reference tachographs.. however unfortunately as Nos stated .. you are really open to.. 'thinking' on the day They can be very ill informed

On the upside .. I've been stopped many times by VOSA in all sorts of rigs without any problems, save for an odd air line leak .. but I have never been stopped with my car and a boat .. Maybe they are scared to ask .. make of that what you will .. but now Ive posted this, I'd better look out my paper work

Maybe some VOSA guys read this forum ? FFS .. look busy
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Old 24 March 2009, 19:00   #17
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you are really open to.. 'thinking' on the day They can be very ill informed

Last time I was stopped by VOSA was southbound on the M74 about 50 miles south of Glasgow in the big checkpoint there. I got a GV9 for a non functional limiter-even though it worked. It was cancelled within an hour because VOSA were using faulty equipment.

The time before that, I was asked 4 times what size vehicle it was I was driving-and the first 3 times he didn't believe it was only a 7.5 tonner even though the weight plate was a foot in front of the guy's face...
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Old 25 March 2009, 15:45   #18
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Only trying to be helpful

My statement was if you exceed 3500Kg, I extract from your link as supplied. see below If your combination is over 3.5 tons you are a commercial goods vehicle over 3.5 tons therefore my local office believes I fall under the tacho rules. Anything goes wrong I produce the letter and phone my local office
Your combination is just less than 3.5 tons so its no problem.
Our boat/trailer combination is around 3.5 tons, add a Defender to the combination. We use our boats commercially We have a tacho.


Extract from your link
A goods vehicle falls within this paragraph if it forms part of an articulated combination which is such that—
(a) in a case where the trailer comprised in the combination has a relevant plated weight, the aggregate of—
(i) the unladen weight of the motor vehicle comprised in the combination, and
(ii) the relevant plated weight of that trailer,
does not exceed 3.5 tonnes, or
(b) in any other case, the aggregate of the unladen weights of the motor vehicle and the trailer comprised in the combination does not exceed 1525 kilograms.
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Old 26 March 2009, 05:21   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Hill View Post
My statement was if you exceed 3500Kg, I extract from your link as supplied. see below If your combination is over 3.5 tons you are a commercial goods vehicle over 3.5 tons therefore my local office believes I fall under the tacho rules. Anything goes wrong I produce the letter and phone my local office
Your combination is just less than 3.5 tons so its no problem.
Our boat/trailer combination is around 3.5 tons, add a Defender to the combination. We use our boats commercially We have a tacho.
Yes, you will need a tacho IF your trailer ULW is greater than 1020Kg. However, dual purpose vehicles are also exempt according to page 31 of VOSA GV74: http://www.vosa.gov.uk/vosacorp/repo...74%2009-08.pdf although I can't find any reference to this in the legislation. You may well be using a tacho when you don't need to.

Quote:
Extract from your link
A goods vehicle falls within this paragraph if it forms part of an articulated combination which is such that—
(a) in a case where the trailer comprised in the combination has a relevant plated weight, the aggregate of—
(i) the unladen weight of the motor vehicle comprised in the combination, and
(ii) the relevant plated weight of that trailer,
does not exceed 3.5 tonnes, or
(b) in any other case, the aggregate of the unladen weights of the motor vehicle and the trailer comprised in the combination does not exceed 1525 kilograms.
Please reread what I posted:

Our combo's plated weight is 4280Kg, which is the method used for the purpose of O-licence calculations. I now know that for the purposes of o-licenses, the actual weight is irrelevant - provided it doesn't exceed the MAM or max axle weights of course!

Quoted from the regs (in full), Look at the bold sections.
Quote:
(1) A goods vehicle falls within this paragraph if it forms part of a vehicle combination, other than an articulated combination, and the combination is such that—
(a) in a case where all the vehicles comprised in it, or all of those vehicles except any small trailer, have relevant plated weights, the aggregate of the relevant plated weights of those vehicles, exclusive of any such trailer, does not exceed 3.5 tonnes, or
(b) in any other case, the aggregate of the unladen weights of the vehicles comprised in the combination, exclusive of any small trailer, does not exceed 1525 kilograms.
(2) In this paragraph “small trailer” means a trailer having an unladen weight not exceeding 1020 kilograms.
If the trailer ULW is less than 1020Kg then it is NOT counted in the weight calculations, irrespective of what the actual or even the plated weight of the trailer is. Our trailer's plate gives a MAM of 1500kg, max payload of 1100Kg, ergo ULW is 400Kg and is therefore exempt from the weight calculation.

Please don't take offence Tony, I'm not trying to be 'clever' here, but I think there is (understandably) a lot of misinformation out there, as the regs are so hard to fathom.
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Old 01 April 2010, 07:06   #20
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Righty then,

I've finally had written confirmation that we are exempt from having an o-licence due to the ULW of the trailer being under 1020kg.

We are also exempt from using a tacho provided that:

a) we operate within a 50km radius of our 'base of operations'

b) the driver of the tow vehicle is a member of the boat crew - i.e. the driver's main activity is not the actual driving.

This is under the derogation from the EU driver's hours rules previously cited in this thread.

We may however fall under the domestic driver's rules but only if we are driving for more than 4 hours in a day (unlikey if we're limited to 50km).
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