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Old 03 December 2011, 16:09   #1
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Changes in legislation for commercial towing

Under current legislation, a vehicle/trailer combination does not require an operators licence so long as the GVW of the towing vehicle does not exceed 3500kg and the trailer has an unladen weight not exceeding 1020kg.

As of tomorrow (4th December 2011) however EC Regulation 1071/2009 comes into force, which requires all vehicle/trailer combinations with a combined GVW (towing vehicle GVW + trailer GVW) of over 3500kg used for hire or reward to hold an operators licence. There is still an exemption for operators of vehicles that only carry their own goods in connection with their trade or business.

As now, a tachograph is required for all vehicle/trailers combinations for business use (except a few very specific exemptions).

In summary, if you operate a vehicle/trailer combination with a combined GVW over 3500kg from 4th December you will need:

Private use - Nothing
Business carrying own goods only - Tachograph
Business carrying other people's goods - Tachograph and operators licence

The punishment for operating without an operators licence or tachograph is a 5000 fine and a prohibition order at the roadside with the vehicle and trailer impounded.
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Old 03 December 2011, 16:56   #2
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Sounds like more excuses for jobsworths to extract cash from small businesses etc, as if it is not hard enough to make a living aready!!

Sorry for the moan, just my two pence worth.

Lee
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Old 03 December 2011, 17:29   #3
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Originally Posted by diverdad View Post
Sounds like more excuses for jobsworths to extract cash from small businesses etc, as if it is not hard enough to make a living aready!!

Sorry for the moan, just my two pence worth.

Lee
European regs......nuff said!!
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Old 04 December 2011, 03:15   #4
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Originally Posted by SW RIB Charter
Under current legislation, a vehicle/trailer combination does not require an operators licence so long as the GVW of the towing vehicle does not exceed 3500kg and the trailer has an unladen weight not exceeding 1020kg.

As of tomorrow (4th December 2011) however EC Regulation 1071/2009 comes into force, which requires all vehicle/trailer combinations with a combined GVW (towing vehicle GVW + trailer GVW) of over 3500kg used for hire or reward to hold an operators licence. There is still an exemption for operators of vehicles that only carry their own goods in connection with their trade or business.

As now, a tachograph is required for all vehicle/trailers combinations for business use (except a few very specific exemptions).

In summary, if you operate a vehicle/trailer combination with a combined GVW over 3500kg from 4th December you will need:

Private use - Nothing
Business carrying own goods only - Tachograph
Business carrying other people's goods - Tachograph and operators licence

The punishment for operating without an operators licence or tachograph is a 5000 fine and a prohibition order at the roadside with the vehicle and trailer impounded.
Would a sole trader business of buying/selling boats being collected around the country need one if they were over the combined 3.5 ? :eek

What if it's under 3,500 I assume no taco is needed ?

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Old 04 December 2011, 07:39   #5
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There is also an exemption I believe if under a certain mileage for own business use. I.E I think I can tow from home to Poole if under the weights without either licence but from Hamble to Poole I think it ramps up to much mileage (50 kilometers if memory serves me?)
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Old 04 December 2011, 08:45   #6
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There is also an exemption I believe if under a certain mileage for own business use. I.E I think I can tow from home to Poole if under the weights without either licence but from Hamble to Poole I think it ramps up to much mileage (50 kilometers if memory serves me?)
Yes there is an exemption on the tachograph regulations for a vehicle/trailer combination with a combined GVW not exceeding 7500kg GVW which is used to carry materials, equipment or machinery for the drivers use in the course of his work within a 50 km radius of base and where driving is not the driver s main activity.

This would apply to someone towing a RIB which he is then going to skipper, but not someone delivering a RIB for maintenance work or a bareboat charter.
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Old 04 December 2011, 08:52   #7
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Originally Posted by SW RIB Charter View Post
.

This would apply to someone towing a RIB which he is then going to skipper, but not someone delivering a RIB for maintenance work .
So I could not deliver one of my RIBs to a workshop 6 miles from my base, my boat and no money being earnt by me??
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Old 04 December 2011, 08:53   #8
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Originally Posted by Boats&Outboards View Post
Would a sole trader business of buying/selling boats being collected around the country need one if they were over the combined 3.5 ? :eek

What if it's under 3,500 I assume no taco is needed ?

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If the combined GVW of the vehicle and trailer was under 3500kg, then no tachograph or operators licence would be required. This would only apply to a very small RIB and towing vehicle. Even a 4m Searider behind most 4x4s would put it over.

If the combined GVW is over 3500kg and you are collecting boats that you have purchased to sell on, then just a tachograph would be required. If you are collecting boats as part of a brokerage service, then a tachograph and operators licence would be required.
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Old 04 December 2011, 08:58   #9
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So I could not deliver one of my RIBs to a workshop 6 miles from my base, my boat and no money being earnt by me??
If the RIB was part of your charter fleet (rather than a private boat), then you would need a tachograph but not an operators licence.
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Old 04 December 2011, 09:03   #10
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Cheers for all the updates, I think there are quite a few of us who could easily become "targets" for revenue and seizure of our boats/4X4s. Quite a few trailer RIBs to The Thames for a days activity with clients from the South coast and this is beyond the 50kilometer limit and I have towed RIBs locally to have engine work etc done.

To really depress me, what does a Tacho cost to buy/fit and also operators licence?
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Old 04 December 2011, 09:55   #11
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Cheers for all the updates, I think there are quite a few of us who could easily become "targets" for revenue and seizure of our boats/4X4s. Quite a few trailer RIBs to The Thames for a days activity with clients from the South coast and this is beyond the 50kilometer limit and I have towed RIBs locally to have engine work etc done.

To really depress me, what does a Tacho cost to buy/fit and also operators licence?
To have a tachograph supplied and fitted is around 1000.

An operators licence will cost you 250 initially plus 391 every 5 years. You will have to employ a transport manager, arrange a maintenance contract with a garage for your vehicle and trailer(s) and provide off road parking facilities (a residential address is not acceptable). You will also have to prove you have access to 8000 worth of funds for the first vehicle and 4500 for each additional vehicle to cover maintenance. The application process takes around 3 months.
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Old 04 December 2011, 11:16   #12
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Am I correct in assuming that private boats/trailers/cars even if over the weight limit are exempt from all this Eurocrapic rules.?

( thats not a spelling mistake )
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Old 04 December 2011, 11:30   #13
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Am I correct in assuming that private boats/trailers/cars even if over the weight limit are exempt from all this Eurocrapic rules.?

( thats not a spelling mistake )
Assuming the combined GVW does not exceed 7500kg, then yes. If over you will need a tachograph, even for private use. No operators licence is required for private use, regardless of the weight.
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Old 04 December 2011, 11:37   #14
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plus 391 every 5 years.
Not sure thats the case anymore (well it isnt with HGV's) .. Its been the plan for a while to collect this fee through the vehicle MOT system instead. All vehicles licenced on the operators licence would pay a much higher MOT fee instead .. I've just had a 30 tonner done at around 140.00 .. not sure what (if any) the scales are for others ? but doubtless, the overall costs will be higher
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Old 04 December 2011, 12:43   #15
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Not sure thats the case anymore (well it isnt with HGV's) .. Its been the plan for a while to collect this fee through the vehicle MOT system instead. All vehicles licenced on the operators licence would pay a much higher MOT fee instead .. I've just had a 30 tonner done at around 140.00 .. not sure what (if any) the scales are for others ? but doubtless, the overall costs will be higher
It still is the case that a 5 year renewal fee is payable for all operators licence. What they have abolished is the fees per vehicle, which have now been replaced by higher annual test fees.

See: Fees for goods vehicle operator's licences | Business Link
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Old 04 December 2011, 13:03   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SW RIB Charter

If the combined GVW of the vehicle and trailer was under 3500kg, then no tachograph or operators licence would be required. This would only apply to a very small RIB and towing vehicle. Even a 4m Searider behind most 4x4s would put it over.

If the combined GVW is over 3500kg and you are collecting boats that you have purchased to sell on, then just a tachograph would be required. If you are collecting boats as part of a brokerage service, then a tachograph and operators licence would be required.
Glad I'm collecting boats under 3.5 combined then :whistling

My 4x4 is 2200kgs which gives 1300kgs left to pull. Thats a Ribeye 600, almost for anything bigger I'll use a smaller towing car which comes in at 1800kgs but is rated to carry 1650kgs. I dont go over that anyway. Crazy thing is that using that towing car for say 1500kgs is not going to be as safe as it would be with the heavier 4x4 - but I'm legal!!

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Old 04 December 2011, 14:21   #17
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It still is the case that a 5 year renewal fee is payable for all operators licence. What they have abolished is the fees per vehicle, which have now been replaced by higher annual test fees.

See: Fees for goods vehicle operator's licences | Business Link
Ok Thanks for that .. It really is getting beyond a joke keping up with this I was getting stuck into HGV drivers requiring a CPC earlier, every five years, that'll be next for you guys on this thread too I expect
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Old 16 December 2011, 02:30   #18
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Ok Thanks for that .. It really is getting beyond a joke keping up with this I was getting stuck into HGV drivers requiring a CPC earlier, every five years, that'll be next for you guys on this thread too I expect
Not that I get to use my lgv licence often these days just wondering if it's worth the expense of the cpc crap.
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Old 18 December 2011, 15:06   #19
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Not that I get to use my lgv licence often these days just wondering if it's worth the expense of the cpc crap.
Well you wont be able to use it at all if you dont have it ..35 hours classroom time here you come there are the usual exemptions, forces etc and there isnt a test, but as usual you can put aside 400 or so beer vouchers for the priveledge of being ruled from Brussels (again)
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Old 18 December 2011, 15:46   #20
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Well you wont be able to use it at all if you dont have it ..35 hours classroom time here you come there are the usual exemptions, forces etc and there isnt a test, but as usual you can put aside 400 or so beer vouchers for the priveledge of being ruled from Brussels (again)
If ever you wanted more fuel to put on the 'let's get the f@&k out of Europe' fire then get this......
A few weeks ago we bought a small crane lorry to help collect/deliver stuff for the workshop over here in France... We will also be offering a transport 'shuttle' service twice a week between the uk/France.
Now apart from the usual paperwork BS that we expected in operating the truck, we have just been informed that Because we are providing a transport service, I, as owner/manager must have some kind of logistics/transport qualification!!!!. This means that someone who sets up a transport business who has no academic qualification in that field must go back to night school (or similar) and achieve a minimum level qualification equivalent to our NVQ..... Vive l'Europe!.
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