Auto Reverse not working - Page 6

beamishken · 16 June 2018, 12:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sargan

yes ... but honestly - rust on shoes is irrelevant ...the friction lining is what is key, and no build on of rust on edge where it slots into cam.

You are putting mild steel into salt water - it rusts.

British trailers are years behind US trailers in that respect .... one US trailer I owned had hydraulic Stainless Steel disc brakes, those were totally unaffected by salt water.,

Yours looked ready to delaminate though, the rust on the shoes is prety irrelevant as you say but under the linings it is significant.
Hard to believe the dealers gave up on it, there is a solution to every problem its just a case of pinpointing the issue

Sargan · 16 June 2018, 19:06

Guess many dealers rely on sell8ng trailers & fitting Towbars.
My type of issue may not be that welcome business.

They are going to email all Indespension outlets, maybe there will be an idea.

beamishken · 16 June 2018, 20:14

Quite shocking realy sounds like they did the basics of checking and adjusting (as you've already done) realised it wasnt something obvious and thought bugger this we cant be arsed with problem solving!
Its not like there are too many things it could be.
If you were nearer id offer to help you sort it but probably a bit far away to be practical

willk · 16 June 2018, 20:20

I watching this thread with immense interest. I have a Super Rollercoaster 10EX and it does the same sh1t when I try to reverse (and turn) up into the winter lodgings. Again, the back axle will be taking more of the load at that point. Reverses just fine on the flatish.

Orwell boy · 16 June 2018, 21:18

perhaps you will now consider jacking it up with all four wheels off the ground ,use a ratchet strap to compress the actuator and then see how many wheels you can turn backwards ,those that will, can then be eliminated from the problem ,you can treat it as four seperate assemblies then ,surely may help you with the possibilities

simonl · 16 June 2018, 21:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orwell boy

perhaps you will now consider jacking it up with all four wheels off the ground ,use a ratchet strap to compress the actuator and then see how many wheels you can turn backwards ,those that will, can then be eliminated from the problem ,you can treat it as four seperate assemblies then ,surely may help you with the possibilities

A proper mechanic wouldn't do that. He'd start replacing stuff in a pseudo -random manner, starting with whatever is easiest to fit or most expensive.

Sargan · 16 June 2018, 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orwell boy

perhaps you will now consider jacking it up with all four wheels off the ground ,use a ratchet strap to compress the actuator and then see how many wheels you can turn backwards ,those that will, can then be eliminated from the problem ,you can treat it as four seperate assemblies then ,surely may help you with the possibilities

I have tried that .... all 4 wheels were locked on, with considerable force I could move them backwards .... but it was a lot of force.

Much work has been done since then, but I could repeat again.
If I do, I’ll report back results.

Sargan · 16 June 2018, 21:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by simonl

A proper mechanic wouldn't do that. He'd start replacing stuff in a pseudo -random manner, starting with whatever is easiest to fit or most expensive.

I have had suggestion to change all 4 brake drums, to change axles, to change damper. :-)

Orwell boy · 16 June 2018, 22:08

[QUOTE=Sargan;774250]I have tried that .... all 4 wheels were locked on, with considerable force I could move them backwards .... but it was a lot of force.

So interesting thought ,what is the difference between a fully compressed actuator by reversing and when the handbrake is on ?, maybe its just the harsh jerk you need to jump the shoes off centre ,the same harsh jerk you applied when you turned the wheels backward which suggests all could function ? ,maybe the slope you speak of is softening out the jerk ,maybe you have changed your motor and don,t have so much oomph ??

neil.mccrirrick · 17 June 2018, 08:33

Have you tried the trailer at rest, no brakes on, then put the handbrake on? If you push the trailer backwards it should roll a little before the trailing shoe is expanded by hitting the lock. If it's locked as soon as you push backwards it would suggest that your handbrake is essentially coming on as soon as you reverse

Sargan · 17 June 2018, 08:50

[QUOTE=Orwell boy;774255]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sargan

I have tried that .... all 4 wheels were locked on, with considerable force I could move them backwards .... but it was a lot of force.

,maybe you have changed your motor and don,t have so much oomph ??

I did consider that ... had a mate bring his 3 tonne pickup ... he also had same problem, if he put it in low ratio & diff lock ... he could just push it .... but wheels were locked on and skidding up drive.

To me it seems the difference is when you apply handbrake it has only limited force from the spring in ES unit. Mine was faulty so changed it yesterday.
When reversing with a car you are supplying continuing force ...much more than spring.

neil.mccrirrick · 17 June 2018, 11:37

Can you adjust the wheel in the picture of the brakes? There should be a star key that you can turn on the outside of the back plate. I suspect that as your issue if it's over adjusted it will stop the trailing shoe collapsing, I think

neil.mccrirrick · 17 June 2018, 11:38

Sorry wheel at 1 in the picture

Sargan · 17 June 2018, 12:36

The star wheel adjuster has been set correctly on all 4 wheels multiple times, its normal service set up item

By opt 1 ..... tightening until wheel locks, then backing off until just free, i.e. spin wheel and it stops in 1.5 turns

Opt B ... by measuring Bowden cable length, with all play taken up then operating cable to apply brake ... difference between the 2 is 6-8mm

Opt 3 ... has been backed off considerably and tested

Interestingly Indespension advise having them with too much gap is the usual casu of auto-0reverse not tripping, shoes need to be really close to drum for them to work correctly with Auto reverse cams.

This is why my thought above - the 8mm or so increase in diam of drum .... 'may' have taken shoes out past the position that allows cams to work correctly. No way of proving this though.

G4b3 nixon · 18 June 2018, 18:53

Im sure you have thought of this, but most knott (don't know if yours is) towing heads have the ability to lock the hydraulic draw bar pin to stop it actuating the brakes. I have come across this problem before on old trailers (and in my opinion any trailer that is dipped in salt water on a regular basis counts as an old trailer) and in some caes I could never solve it except to lock it out as described. I even fabricated a lock out on a head that wasn't equipped with one. I have 22 trailers so have seen all the worst cases and often have to reverse off road up hills and have come to the conclusion that if in doubt lock the brakes out.

I know this isn't really getting to the root of the problem, but you will have trouble free reversing.

Sargan · 18 June 2018, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by G4b3 nixon

Im sure you have thought of this, but most knott (don't know if yours is) towing heads have the ability to lock the hydraulic draw bar pin to stop it actuating the brakes.>>>>I have come across this problem before on old trailers (and in my opinion any.

yep ... this may be my end result.
This is an Indespension head (V93A) the trailer was made by Hallmark who Indespension bought .. so not sure if an 'own brand item' or just relabelled. There does not seem an easy way to lock it.

http://flic.kr/p/25ztAcE

Would have to fabricate something to bolt to hitch and hold a bar in place when needed to lock up for reversing.

G4b3 nixon · 19 June 2018, 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sargan

yep ... this may be my end result.
This is an Indespension head (V93A) the trailer was made by Hallmark who Indespension bought .. so not sure if an 'own brand item' or just relabelled. There does not seem an easy way to lock it.

http://flic.kr/p/25ztAcE

Would have to fabricate something to bolt to hitch and hold a bar in place when needed to lock up for reversing.

I couldn't open the image, but does it have a slot on the top like the knott head in the photo attached. I have pictured the open slot and the lock out available. Also an older type that i have that would be the easiest to fabricate although it would mean removing the gaiter.

charliee · 19 June 2018, 16:05

i'm sure that a light weight Alko head. this must be driving you made - I would consider changing the hubs on the basis they may be too worn.

paintman · 19 June 2018, 19:55

The pics match the Indespension site for one of theirs. Whether it's bits they buy in & rebrand is something only they can answer.

The wear is in the drums so I doubt changing the hubs would make a difference.

The flip over lever works fine - what was used before auto-reverse - so that may be your simplest & cheapest option.

charliee · 19 June 2018, 20:25

Sorry, I meant drums not hubs, my mistake