5000kg boat.

gtflash · 14 May 2019, 22:20

Looking at a heavier 5000kg. . I appreciate it is not towable behind the discovery. Read some stuff about Mini Artics but not worked it out yet.

I have a 1993 license with be and c1e.

Two questions.
Is there another way other than mini artic. To tow a load such as above. Eg American truck, air brakes, Fifth wheel?

Second query. I am no doubtful about my current setup. 2.2t ish discovery 2, towing trailer with gross capacity of 2600kg and boat of around 1500-1800kg

Thanks gt

Tim M · 14 May 2019, 22:34

If you passed your test in 1993 then your current set-up is legal, providing the weight of the boat is within that 2600kg combined with the weight of the trailer. Best thing to do would be get it weighed at a weighbridge - if the whole boat and trailer is less than 2600kg you're legal (Disco is legal to tow up to 3500kg on overun brakes, more if you have air brakes fitted but from memory only up to 4500kg gross).

As for the other, you'll need something that is capable and legal of towing that sort of weight and you'll be looking at a trailer with air brakes. 5th wheeler pickup rigs are pretty common in the US for larger boats - the biggest issue of going down that road in the UK, assuming you imported something would be getting it through all the UK road law hoops, MOT, type approval etc.

Pikey Dave · 15 May 2019, 05:48

VanClaes make a 5th wheel triple axle trailer, I shudder to think what they cost. You’d still have to find something to pull it though.
At 5t for the boat + trailer + tow vehicle, you’re going to be well over the 7.5t limit on your license. You might have to go Class2 HGV

beamishken · 15 May 2019, 06:44

Simple answer is its impractical to tow 5000kg. you couldn't even load that onto a 7.5t truck and drive on your licence

Dan Gurney · 15 May 2019, 08:07

You'd need it craned in when you get there too, so not like you can really "trailer-sail" it anyway?

GuyC · 15 May 2019, 09:57

I think the C1E license you have will limit you to a combined weight of vehicle and trailer to 8.25 tonnes. A 5 tonne boat with a (guess) 1.5 tonne trailer would give you only 1.75 tonnes for the towing vehicle which I don't think is achievable.

The C1E license will go up to a 12 tonne combined limit but I don't know what is involved in going from 8.25 tonnes to 12 tonnes.

A Unimog would be one option although I guess there are other 7,500kg GVW vehicles that would be capable of towing. I think the challenge would be keeping the towing vehicle down to 5.5 tonnes or so assuming you can get the 12 tonne capacity.

Alternatively do your HGV license and then there are no end of (man maths possible) options.

jwalker · 15 May 2019, 09:58

Nah, you're stuck. C1E is currently up to 8250kgs combined vehicle and trailer. The problem is your boat plus a suitable trailer doesn't leave enough weight for a vehicle capable of towing that load.

The vanclaes rig only gets you into the 4000kg range. I spoke to them about this rig at length but it turned out that though I could make the weight work, they weren't keen on immersing the trailer brakes so it was no use to me. There's always a catch.

Pikey Dave · 15 May 2019, 10:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtflash

Looking at a heavier 5000kg. . I appreciate it is not towable behind the discovery. Read some stuff about Mini Artics but not worked it out yet.

I have a 1993 license with be and c1e.

Two questions.

Is there another way other than mini artic. To tow a load such as above. Eg American truck, air brakes, Fifth wheel?

Second query. I am no doubtful about my current setup. 2.2t ish discovery 2, towing trailer with gross capacity of 2600kg and boat of around 1500-1800kg

Thanks gt

Stick it in a marina

Bern Hanreck · 15 May 2019, 10:51

Are you a BIBOA member ? If not it might be worth asking Trevor G ( on here ) to put you in touch with some of the guys who did tow 10M ribs up and down the country ( although I believe there always were questions about TOTAL compliance and they had American import vehicles & air brakes ).

Also Andy Micklewright ( occasional poster on here ) used to carry his big Redbay on the back of an artic and crane in when visiting marinas at the other end of the country ! Very helpful chap might be able to help ?

Orwell boy · 15 May 2019, 20:58

Theres a guy visits Levington marina with a big rib with twin diesels ,tows with a Unimog ,hav,nt a clue if this is in the right ballpark or helpful

beamishken · 15 May 2019, 22:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim M

If you passed your test in 1993 then your current set-up is legal, providing the weight of the boat is within that 2600kg combined with the weight of the trailer. Best thing to do would be get it weighed at a weighbridge - if the whole boat and trailer is less than 2600kg you're legal (Disco is legal to tow up to 3500kg on overun brakes, more if you have air brakes fitted but from memory only up to 4500kg gross).

As for the other, you'll need something that is capable and legal of towing that sort of weight and you'll be looking at a trailer with air brakes. 5th wheeler pickup rigs are pretty common in the US for larger boats - the biggest issue of going down that road in the UK, assuming you imported something would be getting it through all the UK road law hoops, MOT, type approval etc.

I used to import a lot of vehicles from Japan and towing limits for import vehicles are a very grey area. Having had lengthy conversations with vosa re towing capacities for imports.
The best answer I got was that if a vehicle didnt have a towing capacity marked on the chassis plate then technically that vehicle had no entitlement to tow. When it was put to vosa that surely the import vehicle should have the same capacity as its uk counter part eg shogun/pajero toyota surf/4runner and many of those vehicles towed regularly on uk roads. The answer given was that the acid test would be if one of those vehicles was involved in a fatal rta related to the trailer then a court would need to make a determination re the legality of towing with such vehicles. Until a fatality brought the matter to court then any action would be unlikely.
The point was also made that even with a towing capacity marked on the vehicle then because the vehicle hadn't undergone uk type approval for towing that the same rule applied .
Sva was brought in as a mechanism to test and approve none type approved vehicles for uk use however no assessment of towing suitability is available.
Given the above even towing with heavyweight US vehicles is a grey area.

gtflash · 15 May 2019, 23:10

Thanks all. Glad current rig is legal. I know the biboa guys used to tow twin engines scorpion cabin ribs local, with tubes deflated. Sadly not a member anymore but might have Chris email.

So the 8250kg on my license is vehicle, trailer and load weight all in? Does that mean a 7.5tonner is vehicle and load of 7.5 max? I’ve got very confused with MAM, kerb weight, gvw

GuyC · 16 May 2019, 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtflash

So the 8250kg on my license is vehicle, trailer and load weight all in? Does that mean a 7.5tonner is vehicle and load of 7.5 max?

Yes and yes it does

MAM is the same as GVW
Kerb weight is weight of the vehicle without passengers, cargo and fuel

lakelandterrier · 16 May 2019, 17:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuyC

Yes and yes it does

MAM is the same as GVW
Kerb weight is weight of the vehicle without passengers, cargo and fuel

MAM is total permissable weight of vehicle,fuel passengers etc and load combined. A 7.5t vehicle does not weigh 7.5t itself, nor will have a 7.5t payload.

beamishken · 16 May 2019, 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtflash

Thanks all. Glad current rig is legal. I know the biboa guys used to tow twin engines scorpion cabin ribs local, with tubes deflated. Sadly not a member anymore but might have Chris email.

So the 8250kg on my license is vehicle, trailer and load weight all in? Does that mean a 7.5tonner is vehicle and load of 7.5 max? I’ve got very confused with MAM, kerb weight, gvw

A scorpion sting weighs in at 4.5t dry so whilst technically you can tow it with a specialist vehicle I'd suggest the guys doing so were running the gauntlet of being overweight. I once towed a searay 290 sundancer from the lakes to the north east of england with a landcruiser probably 5t in weight & 6" too wide did the journey no problem but totally outside the rules (I was younger then and £500 saved for a 70 or 80 mile delivery seemed worth the risk)
Often people push the boundaries of the law, just because they do and don't get caught doesn't make it legal or sensible

Trevor G · 16 May 2019, 23:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtflash

I know the biboa guys used to tow twin engines scorpion cabin ribs local, with tubes deflated. Sadly not a member anymore but might have Chris email.

Chris is probably the best person to ask - I think Mike used to get Hotlemon moved by lorry rather than trailer.

I can get their contact details if you want them.
Trevor

gtflash · 18 May 2019, 10:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trevor G

Chris is probably the best person to ask - I think Mike used to get Hotlemon moved by lorry rather than trailer.

I can get their contact details if you want them.
Trevor

Yes please.

And thanks all

Trevor G · 20 May 2019, 22:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtflash

Yes please.

And thanks all

PM sent with some details.