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Old 04 August 2006, 12:34   #191
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Thats a very useful bit of info, thanks

but did you know that this is a thread about Landrovers , and once again, not fords, or not other vehicles
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Old 04 August 2006, 12:52   #192
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Originally Posted by gavin
Thats a very useful bit of info, thanks

but did you know that this is a thread about Landrovers , and once again, not fords, or not other vehicles
Whoops must have slipped my memory - thanks for reminding me.....

I seem to remember YOU started this thread - once again I would like to ask you WHY do you just pick on Land Rovers and not say Ford or Nissan or anyone else???
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Old 04 August 2006, 14:15   #193
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Originally Posted by codprawn
Whoops must have slipped my memory - thanks for reminding me.....

I seem to remember YOU started this thread - once again I would like to ask you WHY do you just pick on Land Rovers and not say Ford or Nissan or anyone else???
why not....tis a free world
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Old 04 August 2006, 16:18   #194
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kit by Zeus
Those in the know mostly think that the Zeus kit is a POS and many have gone back to belts on 300Tdi engines. The belts are perfectly fine if correctly treated; I work with Land Rovers for a living and there has been no timing belt issue on any 300Tdi engines built since 1997... and these engines are still produced for this part of the world before anybody says "ha ha ha they stopped making them in 1998 though". Problems on earlier vehicles are easy to fix with 100% certainty and most were done under an extended warranty programme. I believe one of the reasons LR have a bad perception is that they tend to be relatively open about known defects and recall affected vehicles, which some other manufacturers don't. Anybody remember the Shogun steering arms breaking off and leaving you with no steering at whatever speed you happen to be doing at the time? I know somebody who that happened to, and I'd rather my timing belt broke than my steering fell off.... thankfully nobody was hurt.

The only issue with rubber belts is that they eventually perish and snap if you don't change them at the service interval, but that is kind of a common theme with rubber timing belts regardless of marque!

I wouldn't fit a set of timing gears if somebody gave them to me and offered to pay for the fitting too.
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Old 04 August 2006, 18:48   #195
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..Problems on earlier vehicles are easy to fix with 100% certainty
Which does make you wonder how the engine designers could design a system where the belts run off the pullies, carve a groove into the cover and destroy themselves in the process, and, that during engine development, no one noticed the problem.... or perhaps they chose to ignore it.
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...and most were done under an extended warranty programme.
Were they? I wonder whether they'll do mine foc. cos it plainly got missed in the recall. Oh, let me guess, there wasn't a recall they just sold lots of replacement pushrods and gasket sets.

What pish.

Telling me how bad another vehicle is doesn't make LR's any better.

I note the comments about police forces using them; well not too long ago there was a tv program about the traffic cops and they slated Range Rovers. One which they used to have went through 4 engines by 80k miles. It eventually burned and the police drivers were under suspicion of setting it alight to get rid of it! They now drive BMW and think they're excellent.

I accept they do have a certain attraction and they do a good job in rough conditions but they are crap built and have lots of failures and I prefer my road vehicle not to have moss growing in the window channels.

Edit: Just read this to check it and it sounds a bit grumpy, it wasn't meant to be. Just comment.
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Old 04 August 2006, 19:29   #196
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LR in Arizona

I hate to be the 196th contributor to this thread but!!!. LR's are very popular in AZ, in fact there is a huge LR dealership about 5 miles from my home. They are considered fashionable yuppie vehicles usually driving by middle age blondes with silicon tits. The only off road use they get is Safeways carpark. LR's would NEVER be considered for serious off road use. Yes, they do have a good suspension system but that is about all. If you want to go climb mountains most people would buy a Chevy. or a Ford; but that is not quite as chinzy as a LR. but I guess it is dependant on your bra size. Perhaps we can divert this thread to something more interesting, like boobs, and then we could get another 196 posts.
Regards, To all
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Old 04 August 2006, 19:36   #197
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Originally Posted by jwalker
Which does make you wonder how the engine designers could design a system where the belts run off the pullies, carve a groove into the cover and destroy themselves in the process, and, that during engine development, no one noticed the problem.... or perhaps they chose to ignore it.Were they? I wonder whether they'll do mine foc. cos it plainly got missed in the recall. Oh, let me guess, there wasn't a recall they just sold lots of replacement pushrods and gasket sets.

What pish.

Telling me how bad another vehicle is doesn't make LR's any better.

I note the comments about police forces using them; well not too long ago there was a tv program about the traffic cops and they slated Range Rovers. One which they used to have went through 4 engines by 80k miles. It eventually burned and the police drivers were under suspicion of setting it alight to get rid of it! They now drive BMW and think they're excellent.

I accept they do have a certain attraction and they do a good job in rough conditions but they are crap built and have lots of failures and I prefer my road vehicle not to have moss growing in the window channels.

Edit: Just read this to check it and it sounds a bit grumpy, it wasn't meant to be. Just comment.

Ooooh grumpy

Well FWIW.... my 2p (again)

I deal with them a lot at work and I have seen some which have gone five or more years before the belt started to wear, so it is not guaranteed that it would have appeared in testing, and in fact the 1996 vintage vehicles were the first ones I saw with the problem, the earlier 94/95 ones didn't start doing it till later. But I agree it should not have happened and I also agree that many of the build quality problems are inexcusable particularly on the hand-built Defenders.

It wasn't actually a recall (though it should have been IMHO), it was a "service action" - which meant that if a vehicle failed and was presented to a dealer, it would be done under warranty, but it wasn't touched unless it failed, whereas a recall does all vehicles regardless of whether they fail or not, and costs the manufacturer a lot more money. Most problems are dealt with by service actions rather than recalls, unless it is a critical safety-related issue. A great many here were done FOC under the service action, probably about 80% I should think. Sadly the service action was closed several years ago (the logic being that all affected vehicles must have broken by then), but the odd vehicle still does crop up - even 10 years after being built, and the repair kit is still available except of course now you have to pay for it. You can spot the fault developing by sticking a bit of wire with a hook bent in the end up the drain hole on the bottom of the timing case, have a root around and if it comes out with a load of black fluff on it then its time for a new belt and preferably the mod kit. You can get away with fitting a new belt about once a year (depending on mileage) but it's better to do the job properly and fit the kit which is not that hard, about a day's work for the big kit and half that for the little kit.

Funny thing the police - some forces slate them, others can't praise them highly enough! Anybody would think they were in a job where they tell different stories (according to who is listening) for a living....

Our police force use 4 Land Rovers and nothing else. Not a BMW in sight

Moss in window channels - very true. Usually applies to 1960s and 1970 Series vehicles, the reason you don't see this on Jap stuff is of course that being steel they are in the scrapyard long before there is time for anything to establish a proper root structure which is essential to survival at A-road speeds
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Old 04 August 2006, 19:47   #198
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LR's would NEVER be considered for serious off road use. Yes, they do have a good suspension system but that is about all. If you want to go climb mountains most people would buy a Chevy. or a Ford
Rubbish! I live in a country where, until about 15 years ago, there were NO roads, not even unsurfaced ones. Everything was off road. Can anybody else claim that, even in Africa? What did we use? Land Rovers. People who want to go off road still do, like this

The three Land Rovers returned with barely a scratch. The guy with the Pajero spent about three hours with a sledgehammer straightening all his underbody guards ... tells its own story I think

Great big tubby Fords and Chevys would be totally useless because they weigh even more than a Discovery 3 so you would be climbing out the windows when you got to the first swamp
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Old 04 August 2006, 19:54   #199
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To add to all this I'm in the market for a Defender 90. Cheap just as a run around.

The main attraction is a sturdy vehicle which I can walk all over and the more little knocks it has the better it seems to look.

The down side is all the different Landrover marks seem to be actually crap.

When I look at how much a 20 year old Landrover fetches in the UK with 100000 mile plus on the clock, rusty bulkhead and rust bubbling through the paint I start to wonder. I struggle at £5000 in Hampshire.

Jap 4 X 4 s are significantly cheaper. Don't have the rust and are more reliable. They just don't look as good. They don't have the accesories that are readily available in the UK and you can't walk all over them. But they are more reliable and not full of rust.

I have been looking for a Landrover for two months now for about £5000. All I can find is rusty old crap. Who buys these wrecks ?

Oh by the way I spent many years in the British Army using Lighweight Landrovers, series 3 and defenders. It was then that I said I would never by a Landrover because they had so many reliability issues. But I still have sore spot for them.

I just don't know why.

I know I can buy a decent Jap 4 X 4 about 10 years old for the price of a 20 year old knackered Landrover 90.

Sort of defeats the object seeing as I have a Frontera which does everything I want and is a proper 4 X 4. Its reliable but I can't walk all over the wings or roof.

Now I've started to look for a cheap post 1998 Frontera. Thats when it got decent suspension and a decent diesel engine. Fronteras can be jacked up like Defenders and have fat tyres put on them.
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Old 04 August 2006, 19:56   #200
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Originally Posted by BogMonster
Rubbish! I live in a country where, until about 15 years ago, there were NO roads, not even unsurfaced ones. Everything was off road. Can anybody else claim that, even in Africa? What did we use? Land Rovers. People who want to go off road still do, like this

The three Land Rovers returned with barely a scratch. The guy with the Pajero spent about three hours with a sledgehammer straightening all his underbody guards ... tells its own story I think

Great big tubby Fords and Chevys would be totally useless because they weigh even more than a Discovery 3 so you would be climbing out the windows when you got to the first swamp
That thread says you got pulled out by a Pajero.
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