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Old 20 December 2009, 11:58   #1
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It let me down, Clutch, Flywheel, Both?

Sorry, a long post.

After 7 years of ownership, a hard life, 140,000 miles, lots of them towing the RIB, the faithful Shogun finally left me stranded on the hard shoulder last night.

Itís a 3.2 LWB TD that was only a few months old when I brought it, and Iíve been living on borrowed time with the original clutch for the last couple of years. Mind you Iím not sure itís the clutch thatís gone even now.
Itís a bit annoying as it passed its MOT only last week with a recommendation to change the rear tyres soon, so I put 4 brand new ones on it.

Earlier in the day I noticed a slightly different noise on accelerating, but couldnít find anything wrong so carried on with my busy schedule. Travelling along the A27 yesterday evening there was a slight Ďjudderí the revs rose, and I wasnít getting any drive, so I pulled over onto the hard Shoulder.
I jumped out expecting a smell of fried friction material but there wasnít any, so I jumped back in and tried to pull away, it crawled along for a few feet then lost drive and the revs rose again as if the clutch is completely buggered, even though itís not been slipping at all recently. Strangely it almost feels like hitting a curb when the drive is lost, but that could just be me.

To cut a long story short.
Phoned the AA, told them I was stranded, no drive at all.
2.5 hours later a patrol man turned up and agreed with me.
Another hour later a low loader turned up and took me to the garage I use for MOTs about Ĺ a mile from my house.

Unfortunately even though I have changed clutches before on 4x4s, and my Shogun will go in my garage at home I only have about a foot of headroom to jack it up which wonít be enough, so Iím hoping the mechanics can do something for me sooner rather than later as Iím not doing it on the drive this time of year.

HOWEVER
Iíve been aware for a while that the Shogun is fitted with a Duel Mass Flywheel that can give up anywhere past 60,000 miles, but usually a bit more noisily than what Iíve experienced. Itís also been banging a bit at start up recently, which Iíd put down to tired engine mount rubbers, but is apparently also a sign of Duel Mass Flywheel failure.

The trouble is a new one is £1500 from Mitsubishi, plus another £400 for the clutch.
Used ones are around for @£600, but they could go the same very soon.

The garage will obviously need to strip it down before I order anything and I'm hoping they can decide whats wrong quickly.
If the box is out I'll obviously get a clutch put in anyway.

Iím considering a kit sold by lots of different places, for @£1000, that replaces the flywheel with a solid one and includes all three parts of the clutch as well.

I understand that these kits are quite widely used on lots of vehicles to do away with the expensive Duel Mass Flywheels, has anyone first-hand experience of the conversion?

The whole thing is a complete nightmare as weíre broke as usual, and living on a steep hill we could do with the 4WD whilst the snow is about. We also have lots of long journeys to do over X-mas that weíll have to do in Mrs Nashers Astra, which is at least cheaper to run.


Nasher.
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Old 20 December 2009, 17:14   #2
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Sorry to hear of your problems Nasher.

I can't help you with the experience of fitting a conversion kit but am curious to know what a Duel Mass Flywheel is and how it works. I'm assuming it's along the lines of a fluid type used in Auto's but I'm guessing here.
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Old 20 December 2009, 17:24   #3
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There is a good description of dual mass flywheels, and the potential pitfalls of replacing with a solid flywheel here:

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/po...ex.htm?t=61626

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/po...tm?t=56785&v=f

Cheers

Chris
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Old 20 December 2009, 18:07   #4
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Cheers Chris, I had a look on my Trooper forums after looking at your links and it seems that these DMF failers are very common if the clutch is slipping at all as it has to work much harder. Perhaps this is what's happened to Nashers Shogun?

I don't know if my Trooper is fitted with one being a 3.1TDI (low tech engine) but after putting in a search lots of Trooper 3.0 TD's came up. So fingers crossed mine hasn't got one to go wrong.

Hope your local Garage can get it sorted quickly Nasher.
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Old 20 December 2009, 19:09   #5
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Is the shogun still a rebadged pajero?
Have you checked the forum on the Pajero Owners Club site? http://www.pocuk.com
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Old 21 December 2009, 03:47   #6
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morning nasher, we used to find it easier taken the engine out to do a clutch on the range rovers, no wrestling underneath with all that 4x4 lot, would it be better for you?
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Old 21 December 2009, 04:57   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris123 View Post
There is a good description of dual mass flywheels, and the potential pitfalls of replacing with a solid flywheel here:

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/po...ex.htm?t=61626

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/po...tm?t=56785&v=f

Cheers

Chris
There have been reports of problems with solid flywheel kits. These engines have had their harmonics tuned to use a DMF - without one, there have been unwanted side-effects like cam-belts fretting and failing from "crank chatter."

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Old 21 December 2009, 05:41   #8
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Thanks for the sympathies guys.

Iíve done a bit of research, some of which was on the Pajero Forum as Iím a member there.

Iíve decided not to take the risk with a solid flywheel, it could completely ruin the driving experience, and take out the gearbox.

Last night I was again considering doing it myself, but it would be so cramped in my garage, and doing it on the drive is a complete non starter in this weather, so itís staying at the local garage. Mitsubishi apparently quote it as a 6 hour job, which is a lot less than I thought, so the labour content wonít be as high as I expected.

When I was explaining what had happened to the mechanic this morning he said Duel Mass Flywheel as soon as I described what happened.

They are good guys, and are currently looking around to see what sort of deal they can get on a pattern flywheel and clutch. Iíve explained that I need a reasonable quality replacement as itís not a school run vehicle.

From what Iíve seen the flywheel can give up anywhere after 60K miles, and sometimes sooner if abused, so in reality 140K miles on the original clutch and flywheel with lots of towing isnít something I can really complain about.

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Old 21 December 2009, 06:16   #9
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well all i can say to that is merry christmas
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Old 21 December 2009, 06:19   #10
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well all i can say to that is merry christmas
Thanks Biff, that was exactly my thoughts.

Never mind though, the Credit Card company has loads of money

Nasher
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