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Old 17 December 2012, 18:32   #21
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Originally Posted by Leapy View Post
Neither do I, Nos, Cookee et al. Neither does the might of the world's automotive industry brains trust. But we're all desperate for someone to tell us with data and facts, witnessed and verified. Please.

But, there could be a very good reason why no-one can.

Back in the carb day there were all sorts of fuel saving devices offering unbelievable power and economy improvements - trick spark plugs, fuel pressure regulators, magic fuel additives, magnetic whats-its around fuel lines, and and and ... Some bod fitted all of them to his car at the same time, and guess what?

Nothing. Other than the negative effect of the extra weight being carted around.


I ran a repair garage back in the carb days & used to see cars with various devices fitted we used to call them "Rabbits Feet" because you would get as much benefit from a "lucky" rabbits foot in the glove box

customers always swore they worked I guess they didnt like to admit they got scammed or possibly the items had a placebo effect & made people more aware of there driving style

will wait and see if the makers start fitting hho technology before i invest I think
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Old 17 December 2012, 18:38   #22
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Well done to those who are able to understand what I am getting at.

Pikey Dave appears to understand.
I understand what you have PD are implying. Even if you ignore the laws of physics arguments and buy into your 'makes the petrol part of the combustion more efficient' hypothesis, do you not see it is however most unlikely that some uncontrolled DIY gas maker and 'input' system can produce measurable changes in fuel economy in an engine which has already been optimised for efficiency by teams of R&D scientists who have configured an 'intelligent' ECU?

Quote:
I accept that these are not some sort of free energy device.

I have first hand experience of one in a Trooper which has lowered fuel consumption by as much as 30% on long journeys.
Contradiction.

Since its the time of the year, it might be best to explain Santa isn't real either (oh and neither is the tooth fairy).
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Old 17 December 2012, 19:48   #23
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Originally Posted by Ezgoing View Post
Well done to those who are able to understand what I am getting at.

Pikey Dave appears to understand.

I accept that these are not some sort of free energy device.

I have first hand experience of one in a Trooper which has lowered fuel consumption by as much as 30% on long journeys.

What I am keen to find is someone who has tried it on the 2.5 Freelander.

For those who are interested in checking it out a bit more have a look at some of the youtube entries on this link.


N JOY

hho generator in car - YouTube
There's no 'Well done' about it.I understand exactly what you're saying. Fortunately, I am able to understand when it's completely impossible. I'd 'understand' if you insisted that grass is blue and that birds fly backwards while singing 'Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds'.
In both cases, you'd either be delusional or barking mad.

Describe what you mean by 1st hand, and was it a hydrogen generator or an LPG bottle hooked up to a diesel Trooper?

On second thoughts don't. I give up.
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Old 18 December 2012, 03:10   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezgoing View Post
Well done to those who are able to understand what I am getting at.

Pikey Dave appears to understand.

I accept that these are not some sort of free energy device.

I have first hand experience of one in a Trooper which has lowered fuel consumption by as much as 30% on long journeys.

What I am keen to find is someone who has tried it on the 2.5 Freelander.

For those who are interested in checking it out a bit more have a look at some of the youtube entries on this link.


N JOY

hho generator in car - YouTube
what trooper did you have it in? ie which engine, and also what was the actual mpg figures you were getting?
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Old 18 December 2012, 03:34   #25
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and also what was the actual mpg figures you were getting?
And how did you measure it?
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Old 18 December 2012, 06:39   #26
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...it might be best to explain Santa isn't real either)...
Poly, that's the sort of loose talk that I'd Bilge a member for. As I can't appear to make that lever function, I've found you a temporary Avatar instead
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Old 18 December 2012, 12:56   #27
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Originally Posted by Poly View Post
I understand what you have PD are implying. Even if you ignore the laws of physics arguments and buy into your 'makes the petrol part of the combustion more efficient' hypothesis, do you not see it is however most unlikely that some uncontrolled DIY gas maker and 'input' system can produce measurable changes in fuel economy in an engine which has already been optimised for efficiency by teams of R&D scientists who have configured an 'intelligent' ECU?
I don't believe you can make an all encompassing statement that just because teams of R&D scientists have optimised an intelligent ECU that you will have that setup fitted by the car manufacturers. In most cases, you find that there is still room for a lot of improvement for performance. The manufacturers will optimise the setup to offer the least emissions whilst still being able to drag its arse along and give a frugal fuel return. This is done so the engine can be sold in virtually any country and pass their regulations, whilst offering a low stressed reliable,cheap, engine.
On the modern engines you often find that a bit of tweaking on the ignition and fuel mapping will release quite a bit more power reliably and still pass an MOT on the emission test.
We fitted a Tunit box on a 100 series diesel Land Cruiser recently and it made a huge difference to performance. It has 9 maps built in that you can select, each giving a different power setup. We ended up with it on No 7 map (9 being the quickest) and it transformed a heavy tank of a vehicle into something quite sporty. Setting 9 was too brutal and if you floored it from a standing start (auto box) it would smoke its front tyres where they scrabbled for grip.
The interesting thing is, if you refrain from using the extra performance and drive it sensibly, it gives a better fuel return than it did standard, possibly an improvement of 5 MPG on the run?
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Old 18 December 2012, 15:21   #28
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There was a fashion about 15 years ago to fit water injection into the inlet tracts of cars. This did increase performance but not necessarily efficiency.
It worked by cooling the intake temp, much like NO2 or supercharging. There may even have been an element of superheated steam and water breakdown going on.
Anyway, as Rokraider says, engine management systems have a lot of tunability. This exists because of different ambient temps, fuel qualities and variable oxygen content of air due to altitude ( pressure). This is done to maximise engine ability across various markets. One reason that saltwater ready engines can have a high specific tune is that they all run (by default) at sea level.
A friend of mine was convinced that he could get his car "used" to running on water by adding a little bit more water to the fuel tank after each fill, finally ending up running his car on water alone..............needless to say his car had a hissy fit and stopped working.
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Old 18 December 2012, 15:29   #29
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There was a fashion about 15 years ago to fit water injection into the inlet tracts of cars. This did increase performance but not necessarily efficiency.
It worked by cooling the intake temp, much like NO2 or supercharging. There may even have been an element of superheated steam and water breakdown going on.
Anyway, as Rokraider says, engine management systems have a lot of tunability. This exists because of different ambient temps, fuel qualities and variable oxygen content of air due to altitude ( pressure). This is done to maximise engine ability across various markets. One reason that saltwater ready engines can have a high specific tune is that they all run (by default) at sea level.
A friend of mine was convinced that he could get his car "used" to running on water by adding a little bit more water to the fuel tank after each fill, finally ending up running his car on water alone..............needless to say his car had a hissy fit and stopped working.
Your mates efforts with water are amusing, but there does appear to be a weird phenomenon that occurrs with ancient low tune diesel engines. Although all common sense suggests it is nonsense, if Easystart or suchlike is used to help start a tired diesel, they do appear to get addicted to it and become more and more reluctant to start without it?
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Old 18 December 2012, 16:05   #30
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Although all common sense suggests it is nonsense, if Easystart or suchlike is used to help start a tired diesel, they do appear to get addicted to it and become more and more reluctant to start without it?
The common sense explanation that I heard for that was that the damage caused by non-lubricated start damaged the liners, reducing compression and thereafter needing more and more easy start to fire it.

Dunno if "that's the why"?
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