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Old 17 June 2004, 16:09   #51
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I dont think the turbo bit of turbo diesel makes a lot of difference when pulling up a slip. When you look at the stats the maximum torque from the diesel is usually just under 2000rpm, and low revs are what you want for pulling up the slipway.

From the 4wd point of view, Andys A4 quattro handles the gunk at the bottom of the camber slip without even a hint of wheelspin. The 2.5 V6 also means it is seriously quick.

Ricky
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Old 17 June 2004, 16:58   #52
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Originally Posted by roohairy
I'm going to go against the general run of this thread, and say I like front wheel drive cars!
Before you all rush to tell me off, most smaller cars (I can't afford a new BMW, I know their balance is better!) are heavier over the front axle, even with the weight of a trailer on the back. Nose weight should be 50 to 100Kg in most cases, bet your average front wheel drive estate is still heavier at the front! Think to the advice for snow driving, front wheel drive is best, also narrower profile tyres grip better.
Also, all the slips I use tend to be quite steep, and front wheel drive puts your driven wheels 20' further from the wet stuff!
Also, although the power doesn't kick in on a turbo till the engine starts to rev, you have much more torque ar low rpm than a petrol.
I just know I'm going to get shouted at, but if I was buying a car to tow a 6m rib I'd go for a front wheel drive turbo diesel every time.

Roo I would not shout you down for giving your opinion!
BUT front wheel drive, just do not by it & you must have a very long wheel base car to have the front wheels 20' in front of the back wheels!
As for turbo well I can only tell that my last car was a turbo diesel & it was terrible at getting up slips as the turbo did nut kick in to 3000 RPM.
I once was towing down to Devon, loaded up for holiday, just past Exeter where the road spits Right to Plymouth left to Torque! Just started to go up the hill & hit a traffic jam! I did not think I was going to get started again thought that I was going to reverse down the jilcarriage way! Well after a hell of a lot of slipping of the clutch we juddered up the hill! This was with a 2.4 turbo diesel!
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Old 17 June 2004, 18:06   #53
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I used to tow a 5.5m task force dory on a roller coaster trailer with a peugeot 405 to start with then a 306. Think it was a bit iffy legally, but never had any problems.
Best tow vehicle I had was a 101" FC landrover, 135Hp V8 75:1 reduction in low box 1st. But a bit hard to justify just for launching a boat, so used the car for a while then bought a Honda 450 quad (agricultural type) which also used to move it ok, but even more iffy from the legal point of view.
Now don't have a trailer so my problems have ended! Except I need to move the boat to Hull.....

Both cars were diesels by the way!
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Old 17 June 2004, 18:18   #54
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[QUOTE=thorper] I dont think the turbo bit of turbo diesel makes a lot of difference when pulling up a slip. When you look at the stats the maximum torque from the diesel is usually just under 2000rpm, and low revs are what you want for pulling up the slipway.


Most turbo diesels these days develop torgue just a little too high - you DO often have to slip the clutch for hill starts etc - I remember hiking through the Brecon Beacons and coming across a new Transit minibus being driven by an old lady taking a load of disabled kids out for a spin - she had got stuck on a very steep narrow hill and just couldn't pull away. The only solution was to give it loads of welly and ignore the smell of burning clutch!

As an even better example my mate runs a large haulage firm - they had a contract to use their Merc recovery truck to tow lorries up a really steep hill as they couldn't get up fully laden. The Merc is great - will tow a 42 ton fully laden artic at 80mph!!!

Unfortunately all this power is developed too high up - it just couldn't cope with the loads at such low speeds - even with 600bhp! Instead they had to use their old Scammell explorer - straight 8 petrol engine of only about 120hp but boy can they pull - peak torque at about 600rpm! Coped no problem at all - top speed was 20mph mind!

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/minesagreenun

Just have a look at the pics and see what they can do offroad - bloody amazing!
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Old 17 June 2004, 18:31   #55
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Diesel Cars are fine for towing in my opinion. Of course a 4 wheel drive will give you greater flexibility when launching, however a two wheel drive with a 6m Rib is ok on good slips.
The new range of common rail diesel engines have really good specs. The new Jag and Landrover 2.7 diesel puts out 210HP and 440Nm of torque. Even at tick over the torque output is > 300Nm!! Wait a year and you will see a V8 Diesel in the new Range Rover, 600Nm torque and 280HP. Even the New Ford Focus 2 litre Diesel puts out more torque than the 3 litre petrol V6 Mondeo.

For info I have test driven the New Jag and BMW Diesel cars. The BMW is slightly more powerful, however the Jag is more refined, you can not tell it is a Diesel engine until you open the bonnett!!
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Old 17 June 2004, 18:39   #56
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yes but it is the WAY the power is delivered not just numbers
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Old 17 June 2004, 18:40   #57
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V8 petrol automatic range rover, 1986. Can launch and recover from just about anywhere. Lucky if we get 12 mpg but only use it with the rib so costs about 8.00 to and from local slip. Vehicle cost 1100.00 4 years ago with annual costs around 400.00 (Road fund, MOT and insurance (cherished vehicle insurance). Can fill it with wet gear and kids.Also use it to block up my drive to deter rib thieves....



worth considering?

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Old 17 June 2004, 18:43   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roohairy
I'm going to go against the general run of this thread, and say I like front wheel drive cars!

I just know I'm going to get shouted at, but if I was buying a car to tow a 6m rib I'd go for a front wheel drive torbo diesel every time.
Hi,

as the owner of a 4m RIB (about 500kg including the trailer) & also a Pug 306 1.9 Turbo Diesel, I feel that i can add to this thread with some experience. I trailer the RIB everywhere as it sits in my front garden. This means that I am at the mercy of what ever Slipway I visit.

On the motorway & around town the pug will quite happily tow the trailer. You only notice towing it in wind when the back of the car 'feels' a little light.
But after wheel spinning up numerous slipways, I have bought a automatic Suzuki Grand Vitara with a 2.0L 24v V6 engine.
This doesn't even notice I'm towing.
The weight of a vehicle & secondly wheelbase make a big difference to towing another vehicle. Heavy is always better.

GREASY, SLIPPERY, STEEP - who cares !

4WD LOW wins everytime on a slipway.

There is quite simply, no substitute

Pete
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Old 17 June 2004, 18:51   #59
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Codprawn,
you are absolutely right, you can not judge using the tech specs alone. However, the latest diesels I have driven deliver the power with much better control, This is achieved with Variable geometry turbos and twin stage compressors. This combined with higher combustion pressures and fast injector control give an amazing low end torque. Yes, the max torque may not be achieved until 1750 - 2000 RPM but you get 80% at idle.
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Old 17 June 2004, 18:57   #60
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oh, nearly forgot!..

It was never usually a problem launching the RIB....

Just the recovery!

& thats when you find you have a few kilos of water in it too.

Pete
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