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Old 17 June 2004, 20:04   #61
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Just ask anyone who drives a diesel how easy it is to stall a petrol hire car!
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Old 18 June 2004, 05:42   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myndit
V8 petrol automatic range rover, 1986. Can launch and recover from just about anywhere. Lucky if we get 12 mpg but only use it with the rib so costs about £8.00 to and from local slip. Vehicle cost £1100.00 4 years ago with annual costs around £400.00 (Road fund, MOT and insurance (cherished vehicle insurance). Can fill it with wet gear and kids.Also use it to block up my drive to deter rib thieves....



worth considering?

Doug
Doug I think you are right....

There are some good deals on older discovery's out there.....

I paid £2400.00 for my 1992 V8 petrol and use it regulary for the shorter trips.

One thing is for sure, it won't get stuck and has plenty of power.....

Try finding one with an lpg conversion and you can have cheap fuel as well.

The other plus being that at that price it does not matter if you dunk it...



Gazza


PS make sure you have the transmission check out because that can be a problem on the older ones
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Old 19 June 2004, 06:45   #63
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Oh no! Not TOWING again !!!

Hi Guys,

Sorry to bring this one up again but what about an 8.5mtr Scorpion with a BIG Verado or Yamaha 300 HPDI and 80 gallons of petrol?

Won't some of these vehicles get pulled down the slipway behind such a boat?

I intend to use a car mainly for launching rather than towing but I do have a 200 mile round trip to the Solent and I shall only have one car.

It seems that you have so far been talking about towing and launching 6mtr - 7mtr boats, which are likely to be quite a lot lighter than my proposed rig.

A Disco would be feasible (but no bigger). I see that a Jag has been mentioned. Could a 3-litre S-Type really handle such a boat on the slipway? I have to admit that this is my favourite car today. Yes! I do qualify as "over 45"!

Didn't someone say quite a while ago that it's the trailer, rather than the load that is restricted by tow-length?

Come on - tell me the Jag would be perfect for the job (based on actual experience) then I might be able to have my cake and eat it!

Cheers!

Chris.
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Old 19 June 2004, 06:58   #64
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Chris,

Your Jag (Or for that matter any other saloon incl BMW 530) will be too small for towing an 8.5m Scorp on twin axle trailer. You will need a proper 4x4 - Landrover, Shogun, Disco,Trooper,Grand Cherokee etc. Blue Ice (my old Scorp & Richard B's now) weighed 2100kg on a twin axle trailer. More with a full fuel tank and kit onboard. She towed fantastically well behind a 3.0TD Trooper LWB.

The original question on this thread related to a 6-6.5m RIB which is OK behind a normal car. Bigger boat is a whole different ballgame!

Cheers,
Alan
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Old 19 June 2004, 07:01   #65
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Chris - I think you're into serious 4x4 territory here... the most popular vehicles for 8m+ RIBs are generally Toyota Landcruiser Amazons, or American imports (which will do up to 9tonnes?). Jeep Grand Cherokees and BMW X-5 seem popular as well.

I'm fairly sure that the 8.5 RIB with heavy engine will be well over the tow capability of any saloon car. Our 7.5 is on the limit for my Merc estate.

The trailer law is very vague - 7m max IIRC, excluding drawbar (common consensus seems to be that the drawbar starts at the winch post), and overhanging loads are allowed. There is an exemption for "indivisible loads" but it's not well defined. I reckon that a boat is reasonably well described as indivisible!

With bigger RIBs, dry berthing becomes a good option. You retain a comfy saloon car of your choice, and avoid worries of towing and the problems of slipway launching. In terms of costs, you don't have a 4x4 to run all through the week, and you won't need to service the trailer too often (4 wheels - gets pricey!).
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Old 19 June 2004, 07:25   #66
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[QUOTE=Richard B] Chris - I think you're into serious 4x4 territory here... the most popular vehicles for 8m+ RIBs are generally Toyota Landcruiser Amazons, or American imports (which will do up to 9tonnes?). Jeep Grand Cherokees and BMW X-5 seem popular as well.

What sort of American import will tow 9 tonnes????

They don't come much bigger than the Dodge Ram - the max towing for that is 5000lbs standard which equals 2.2 tonnes - the high capacity models will tow 8660lbs which is about 3900kgs.

Even the Hummer will actually tow less than a Land Rover!

Remember a lot of a vehicles towing abilities are down to our LAWS!

I have actually seen a police Range Rover dragging a 38 ton artic off the motorway on it's side in snow! I once towed a big Iveco double wheel van fully laden which had a siezed back axle - I was driving a new Discovery TD5 auto and it dragged the van along no probs - left 4 tramlines down the road until the tyres burst - was easier to tow then! I din't even need to go into low range.

Looking through my mates caravan mag the other day(I not sad enough to buy one) the Land Rover products had higher towing capacities than ANY other vehicle in the list.
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Old 19 June 2004, 07:48   #67
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My apologies - it's not 9 tonnes, it's 5 tonnes (11000lbs converted at 2.2lbs to the kilo).

As you state, the vehicle's towing capability is legally restricted. Above 3.5 tonnes, I think you need the trailer's brakes powered from the towing vehicle. This would need a little more research as the overall length, overall weight (gross train weight) and weight of the towing vehicle become more important.

Codprawn, I hope you re-imbursed the highway authority for damaging the tarmac.
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Old 19 June 2004, 16:54   #68
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Codprawn, I hope you re-imbursed the highway authority for damaging the tarmac. [/QUOTE]


It was OK till the tyres burst - the tramlines from the bare rims were pretty impressive!

Makes a nice change from all the times I haven't bothered trying to sue them for damage caused by speedhumps - potholes - road debris etc etc! Nice to get a bit of REVENGE!!!
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Old 19 June 2004, 16:57   #69
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This thread is getting more and more informative by the day.

I cannot recommend the X5. We bought one last September (3.0 d sport manual) We chose the manual as we need to keep the car for 4 years and this means we will be using the car for 1 year without the manufacturer's warranty. As most of my previous prestige cars have needed replacement autoboxes between yr 3 and yr 4 , i am trying the manual box, as a clutch must be cheaper than an autobox!

The problem is the amount of clutch slip you have to give the car to move it up the ramp. On a steep ramp you can smell the clutch when you get out the car to finish strapping the boat etc.

This is why I chose to use the Range Rover, the V8 is unstoppable and in low box, there is no strain on the torque converter, as flat out in 1st is approx 5 mph!

As I said before the fuel consumption is criminal, but the LPG or diesel version may improve things.

I am actually slightly embarrassed when we recover, as if the slip is occupied (soemtimes for a long time by somebody stuck) we drive down onto the beach, grab the rib, move to a suitable spot and finalise the rib for road use. The problem is saying no to requests from others who are attempting to recover their boats with inadequate vehicles.

Try a Disco or Range Rover, you'll never look back (well maybe at the fuel station price as you drive by!!!)

Doug
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Old 19 June 2004, 17:46   #70
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This is why I chose to use the Range Rover, the V8 is unstoppable and in low box, there is no strain on the torque converter, as flat out in 1st is approx 5 mph!

Try a Disco or Range Rover, you'll never look back (well maybe at the fuel station price as you drive by!!!)

Doug [/QUOTE]

Couldn't agree more - people often moan about them rusting etc etc but if you saw another make vehicle that had led a similar life there would be nothing left!

Near Swansea there is a vast area of salt marshes known as Penclawdd where people have gathered cockles for centuries - untill quite recently they still used horse and cart as the conditions are so bad - when they started using 4x4s they were all Land Rovers but of course they rusted so they tried the Jap 4x4 pickups etc - guess what - they have all gone back to Land Rovers - they seem to be the only thing that will survive the constant saltwater spray and they refuse to get stuck unless you are really stupid!

Having said that no matter what vehicle you drive salt water does them no good at all - make sure they get a good wash down afterwards - my best tip is to stick a garden sprinkler underneath for 30 mins - far better than a pressure washer - it is flow that counts not pressure - it saves your back as well - could be I am just lazy!!!
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Old 19 June 2004, 17:48   #71
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Doug / Myndit, which cars have needed replacement autoboxes between yr 3 and yr 4?
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Old 20 June 2004, 05:35   #72
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Thanks Guys!

It looks like a Land Rover then.

I was hoping to leave the boat in dry storage but there seems to be so few facilities available that I cannot be certain of getting a place at a "desirable" location.

I have to change my present car next May, when the lease runs out. None of the company cars on offer would be suitable for towing anything above about 4 metres so I need to get my own car.

I will be unable to keep the boat at home, so I intend to keep it at a boat yard or marina, on its trailer. That way, I only have to launch the boat at the other end of my journey and (hopefully) should not experience the usual problems associated with hot wheel bearings.

Realistically, I expect to get the car in May and the boat at the beginning of the 2006 season. Still quite a wait but at least they should have tested and (most likely) developed beefier versions of the Mercury Verado by then!

Thanks again for your help.

Regards,

Chris.
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Old 20 June 2004, 09:33   #73
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[QUOTE=Chris Murray] Thanks Guys!

It looks like a Land Rover then.


As you won't be ready till next May you will be able to go for the NEW Discovery which is totally different to the old one - in my opinion it will be a better road car but not as good in EXTREME off road conditions. The reason being the beam axles as used by every Land Rover have been ditched in favour of an independent setup like the new Range Rover.

Also it will have a longer wheelbase which is worse offroad but better on it - having said that I wouldn't mind betting it will still be better offroad than ANY of the competition!

Due to my work and silly mileage I get a new car every 6 weeks - once they hit 12 to 15000 miles they go back - I have had almost every sub 35k car you can think of - Audi - BMW - Merc - Volvo etc etc- the only 2 I have missed have been the Alfa 156 and the Discovery.

The Discovery was brilliant - cruise on Motorway at 100mph in total comfort - then across the Brecon Beacons on really rough tracks that are normally reserved for motorbikes. Great handling on the road thanks to ACE - they really are good and you could almost forget they had beam axles - only drawback was it took about 10,000 miles for the engine to loosen up - had to give it back at 12,000!
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Old 20 June 2004, 13:21   #74
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Richard B

For your info:

Merc V class 130k miles = 1 x autobox & 1 x cylinder head (£6000)
BMW 5 series 525 125k miles = 1 x autobox and exchange block (£4400)
DISCO TD5 88k miles = 1 x new engine and 1 x autobox 1 x rear axle 1 x radiator (all warranty)

Call it bad luck if you liike but these cars are strictly main agent serviced and driven easily within their limitations.

Rgds

Doug
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Old 20 June 2004, 13:51   #75
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I think a lot of the trouble with modern autos is down to the electronics controlling them - another is a small problem is not diagnosed and a new box is fitted to bump up the dealers labour charges.

Years ago I had a Rover SD1 v8 auto - stunning car which I really miss - it was the last of them - 1987 and all the faults were ironed out - anyway at 130,000 miles the auto box started really playing up - was told it would need a new or recon box - £800 then! Tried a few places and was told the same - then a bloke who used to work for Jaguar told me it was a vacuum modulator and the diaphram had become holed - £38 for the new part - it cured it no probs!

On a slightly different note last summer got stuck in an 8hr traffic jam on the M4 - I was in my old Landie - no probs - the cars that had cooked and were on the hard shoulder were all newish cars - quite a few BMWs and Mercs etc - one of the blokes I helped had just had the car serviced by a main dealer and it had cooked! Seems BMW along with all the others now use alloy rads as they so much cheaper than copper.
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Old 21 June 2004, 22:48   #76
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I have a Chevrolet Tahoe V8 gasoline and a 8m Rib w/Inboard Diesel. A very good combination and the car is strong enough for pulling this boat in most thinkable situations.
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Old 22 June 2004, 02:42   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myndit
Richard B

For your info:

Merc V class 130k miles = 1 x autobox & 1 x cylinder head (£6000)
BMW 5 series 525 125k miles = 1 x autobox and exchange block (£4400)
DISCO TD5 88k miles = 1 x new engine and 1 x autobox 1 x rear axle 1 x radiator (all warranty)

Call it bad luck if you liike but these cars are strictly main agent serviced and driven easily within their limitations.

Rgds

Doug
Note to self.. *remember not to buy used car off Myndit*...
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Old 22 June 2004, 03:50   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jono
Note to self.. *remember not to buy used car off Myndit*...
quote from Cod Pawn " Every six weeks"

No but one of Codpawns might be a good deal, does he change them when the ash tray is full or something ?

Pete
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Old 22 June 2004, 04:03   #79
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NEW Landrover?

That would be nice!

As it will effectively be a choice between a new Scorpion and a new car, there is no contest: The BOAT must come first!

Chris.
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Old 22 June 2004, 08:16   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete7
quote from Cod Pawn " Every six weeks"

No but one of Codpawns might be a good deal, does he change them when the ash tray is full or something ?

Pete
It is PRAWN - anyway yes I do change cars more than most - hire them as 120,000 miles a year is too much for ANY lease - in fact 4 hire companies have banned me because of the milage - they don't like having to send a car off fleet that quickly with just one person having used it - luckily got a good deal with one of the big hire companies who just about put up with it!

As to having one after me - well I DO actually run them in a little bit and never rev an engine till it's warmed up but the brakes and suspension do suffer - 4000 miles for complete set of new tyres on Vectra SRi - they weren't happy - but it's got traction control so I can't have been spinning tyres - can I? Of course the screech round every roundabout has nothing to do with it..............

All the cars I get start to go off the pace towards the end - another thing that worries me are the oil changes - they go off fleet at 15,000 miles never having had an oil change even though some need them at 10,000 miles!

These cars do NOT show up as a hire vehicle so when you buy an ex vauxhall - audi - vw etc fleet car it may have been driven by one of their sales managers but it could have just as easily been thrashed as a hire car!
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