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Old 25 March 2007, 15:35   #31
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Why do I find this funny?.... ...Anyway the money would only be wasted killing inocents in illegal wars!
Douglas, you're a bit too close to the feckin truth there.
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Old 25 March 2007, 16:55   #32
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Stealth tax.....
Could we all stop referring to this as a "stealth tax" it is about as stealthy as a bull elephant with a gammy leg.
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Old 25 March 2007, 18:22   #33
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It irritates me to hear the press talking about the 'tax on 4x4s'. As has already been said, it has NOTHING to do with transmission configuration and everything to do with CO2 output.
No it isn't. I posted earlier about the fact that it costs me 200 quid extra to tax a 30 tonner over what a 4x4 will cost, which chucks out a shed load more co2 because of its poorer consumption and high mileage than my next door neighbours 4x4 will ever do! So how does the 'green' chancellor balance that ? Its complete mince to suggest that a 4x4 is worthy of a tax hike to this level. Its a taxation robbery, another example of us being taxed to be green, and pay, whilst the rest of the world pollutes at free will
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Old 25 March 2007, 18:52   #34
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No it isn't. I posted earlier about the fact that it costs me 200 quid extra to tax a 30 tonner over what a 4x4 will cost, which chucks out a shed load more co2 because of its poorer consumption and high mileage than my next door neighbours 4x4 will ever do! So how does the 'green' chancellor balance that ? Its complete mince to suggest that a 4x4 is worthy of a tax hike to this level. Its a taxation robbery, another example of us being taxed to be green, and pay, whilst the rest of the world pollutes at free will
We're talking about car tax not HGV tax though. Car drivers don't blockade refineries when they get pissed off (more's the shame).

Besides,if you look at the weight moved for fuel consumed, while your 30 tonner is doing approx 225 mpg/tonne loaded a Disco is doing around 40 mpg/tonne.

Bet you'd never seen an argument for a truck being more fuel efficient than a car before

We're all agreed that this tax rise is a pisstake though.
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Old 26 March 2007, 02:43   #35
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YIK , I was just highlighting the massively heavier polluting power of an HGV for not a lot more tax. So the CO2 per £ of road tax is heavily distorted.

That said, the tax used to be higher before the fuel protests of 2000. And if anything it confirms the whimsical nature of government policy in setting any road tax at a notional fee as they see fit
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Old 26 March 2007, 10:05   #36
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That said, the tax used to be higher before the fuel protests of 2000. And if anything it confirms the whimsical nature of government policy in setting any road tax at a notional fee as they see fit
Thats the annoying thing and its what makes you realise they are chasing votes.
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Old 26 March 2007, 16:42   #37
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Just checked out the Co2 for my TDI300 Disco.
248g/Km.
Now at 30 mpg that equals 48.3 KM/pg which is 10.6 km/L

Now for every 0.09 Litres (1 Km) it produces 248 gramms of Co2, then that equates to 2755 gramms of Co2 per litre. 90 litre tank = 247950 gramms. or 247Kg of Co2.
Since when has 90 litres of fuel (approx 70-80 Kg) generated 247Kg of gas ontop of propelling a 2 tonne car 1000 metres???

Unless someone can spot a flaw in the maths it doesn't add up.

Wonder what their graphs would make of my triple carbed 2 stroke guzzling 100 litres...
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Old 26 March 2007, 16:52   #38
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Oxygen has weight. <edit>Ok, Mass.
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Old 26 March 2007, 16:53   #39
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Just checked out the Co2 for my TDI300 Disco.
248g/Km.
Now at 30 mpg that equals 48.3 KM/pg which is 10.6 km/L

Now for every 0.09 Litres (1 Km) it produces 248 gramms of Co2, then that equates to 2755 gramms of Co2 per litre. 90 litre tank = 247950 gramms. or 247Kg of Co2.
Since when has 90 litres of fuel (approx 70-80 Kg) generated 247Kg of gas ontop of propelling a 2 tonne car 1000 metres???

Unless someone can spot a flaw in the maths it doesn't add up.

Wonder what their graphs would make of my triple carbed 2 stroke guzzling 100 litres...
I think you forgot that CO2 is made up from one atom of carbon (coming from the fuel) plus two atoms of oxygen coming from the air. only about 27% of the mass of co2 your car produces comes from the fuel (since C weighs 12 g/mole and O weighs 16 g/mole and there are 2 O atoms per molecule of CO2)

Therefore these numbers are about right... the fuel also contains H atoms but they only weigh a fraction of the carbon content of the fuel.

Does that make sense - if not I'll waffle on for hours explaining it in more detail.
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Old 26 March 2007, 18:11   #40
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Oxygen has weight. <edit>Ok, Mass.
Hehe its a good challenge that.. At the birth of my first child, the nurse mentioned how dangerous oxygen was, thats why they keep it in cages out side..she said .. I was at lengths to explain that it wasnt flammable, but she said it was , now I dont like to doubt a professional but I had to take this one up and explain that things burn in it, and its required for combustion, but it its self is not flammable, as I protested , we breath the stuff !! But she wouldnt listen and she said I wouldnt know, My wife was in pain so I left it.
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