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Old 04 September 2006, 02:36   #1
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4x4 use in towns

An interesting article on the BBC site today:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/h...re/5309190.stm

And the campaigners website:
http://www.stopurban4x4s.org.uk/

I especially like the 10 reasons not to drive a 4x4 in town:

1. You're not a farmer
2. Your family fits into a saloon car or people carrier
3. You will breathe cleaner air
4. You will save money
5. You won't have to lie to your grandchildren (about your contribution to climate change)
6. You will be less likely to kill a pedestrian
7. You might see a small child early enough to avoid backing over them
8. You will be less likely to injure people in other cars
9. You will have a better time driving
10. People won't think you are an 'idiot'

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Old 04 September 2006, 02:53   #2
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You know, for the odd occasion when I am driving arond town (rather than lugging loads of gear/people & towing trailers about the place) I have considered the economics of a second car.

The things that are preventing me from getting a little 1.0l petrol or similar are as follows:

1./ Council actively make it as difficult as possible for me to have a second car, with parking fees for permits etc

2./ The only direct financial benefit I would see would be fuel economy (which would soon add up, as I spend around £375 a month on Diesel), and the environmental benefits are not likely to be noticeable to me (selfish I know).

3./ My landie doesn't bugger the suspension, nor does it ever ground out on the Portsmouth speed humps.

5./ The high driving position gives me great visibility coming up to round abouts, driving around the residential streets etc, and I can usually spot things far earlier and respond to them. This effect is more pronounced in town than on motorways, as generally more is happening.

4./ And I simply can't afford a second car...

And as for being less/more likely to kill someone - I find that not hitting them in the first place is generally a good plan

So, as I bought my Landie to do a small amount of off roading, cope with large amounts of gear, sometimes heavy tows, carry 7 people, and cope with the odd poor qaulity slipway, even though I live in a town, it's staying!
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Old 04 September 2006, 04:56   #3
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1. I own a farm
2. I don't have a family
3. It's windy here so I breathe clean air all the time
4. Well you have got to spend it on something haven't you?
5. See 2.
6. Pedestrians are more likely to be aware of a 2 tonne Tdi Defender on noisy mud-terrains approaching, than just about anything else apart from a fire engine. And if they are that dozy, then it can probably be considered natural selection.
7. See 6. A Tdi makes an excellent reversing alarm and the brief cloud of smoke on start up serves as an additional reminder.
8. Everybody else drives one too
9. No.
10. On balance I think I have seen more idiots driving cars than 4x4s, but at least driving a 4x4 gives me the chance to get away from a good proportion of the idiots.

So I have two
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Old 04 September 2006, 05:15   #4
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So every people that works with boats and lives in the town need to have a extra car, cant be good for the enviroment.
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Old 04 September 2006, 06:21   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorper
1. You're not a farmer
2. Your family fits into a saloon car or people carrier
3. You will breathe cleaner air
4. You will save money
5. You won't have to lie to your grandchildren (about your contribution to climate change)
6. You will be less likely to kill a pedestrian
7. You might see a small child early enough to avoid backing over them
8. You will be less likely to injure people in other cars
9. You will have a better time driving
10. People won't think you are an 'idiot'
Ohhhhhhhh!!!!! I'm so ashamed

1. True so what, neither are Severn Trent
2. True so I have to go and buy one?
3. Tell me how, the exhaust is behind me.
4. True
5. We'll all leave that to the government
6. I'll stick to not hitting them, it doesnt accelerate that fast you know.
7. Then again you might just back over them in a saloon instead
8. You know, I bet that's what Prince Naseem Hamed thought
9. No not driving is a better time if it involves beer or boats.
10. I doubt me driving a saloon will change this sad truth.

So lets return again to their basic tennet CO2 emissions;
2 blokes in a v8 landy = 2x18 = 36 passenger miles per gallon
1 bloke in a saloon = 1x36 = 36 passenger miles per gallon

And what do we see in droves? the good old british commuter/rep
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Old 04 September 2006, 07:07   #6
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Surely the fact that many Land Rovers are still running after 40 or 50 years has to be the ultimate in recycling?

They mention the Freelander in their hit list - it is actually smaller and lighter than a Pug estate and more economical.

Why don't they mention an Imprezza? It has a 2L engine - must be good. Ah but it only does 14mpg when driven properly.

Then again they are all in favour of buses. Maybe they should see them in Swansea - massive things that do 6mpg and have 4 people - yes 4 people on board at best!!!

The one reason that really got me was they mention the lack of visibility in a 4x4 when reversing - you may knock someone over. Well as most people spend FAR more time going FORWARDS I would have thought a 4x4 was much better for viz!!!

Load of frigging hypos as usual.
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Old 04 September 2006, 07:11   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BogMonster
So I have two
Given where you live Stephen, I think you can justify it
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Old 04 September 2006, 07:23   #8
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So Ricky, what do you use to tow the tornado with ?

Anyway,

Quote:
Originally Posted by thorper
I especially like the 10 reasons not to drive a Rib around the Solent:

1. You're not the RNLI
2. Your family fits into a small yacht
3. You will breathe cleaner air
4. You will save money by using a 4x4 off road (better mpg) as a hobby
5. You won't have to lie to your grandchildren (about your contribution to climate change)
6. You will be less likely to kill a Dolphin
7. You will be using a free source of power
8. You will be less likely to injure people
9. You will have a better time driving more slowly
10. You won't block up town quay in cowes on a weekend.

Pete
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Old 04 September 2006, 07:23   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorper
Given where you live Stephen, I think you can justify it
Who does he have to justify it to? You? You run a boat for your hobby. Doesn't that smell of Hypocrisy?
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Old 04 September 2006, 07:28   #10
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Old 04 September 2006, 07:45   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard B
Good for you - they have a petition as well - just signed it.

About time we put the antis in their place!!!
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Old 04 September 2006, 07:52   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jono
Who does he have to justify it to? You? You run a boat for your hobby. Doesn't that smell of Hypocrisy?
Not really Jono. I live in a very built up area where using large 4x4 vehicles for the school run / shopping is rather antisocial. I don't expect everyone to agree with that, but thats life
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Old 04 September 2006, 07:58   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorper
An interesting article on the BBC site today:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/h...re/5309190.stm

And the campaigners website:
http://www.stopurban4x4s.org.uk/

I especially like the 10 reasons not to drive a 4x4 in town:

1. You're not a farmer
2. Your family fits into a saloon car or people carrier
3. You will breathe cleaner air
4. You will save money
5. You won't have to lie to your grandchildren (about your contribution to climate change)
6. You will be less likely to kill a pedestrian
7. You might see a small child early enough to avoid backing over them
8. You will be less likely to injure people in other cars
9. You will have a better time driving
10. People won't think you are an 'idiot'

1. I'm not a chauffeur or taxi-driver either but find a car most practical
2. Most of which have emissions worse than my 4x4
3. No, we're higher up where the air is cleaner (and my emissions are better than yours, ner!)
4. On what exactly?
5. Are you purely going to assess my contribution on my car then?
6. I don't care!
7. My reversing detectors would tell me they are there.
8. I don't care about others in cars!
9. You don't know what turns me on about driving.
10. I don't give a f**k what other people think.
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Old 04 September 2006, 08:24   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorper
Not really Jono. I live in a very built up area where using large 4x4 vehicles for the school run / shopping is rather antisocial. I don't expect everyone to agree with that, but thats life
I think the whole school run thing is anti social. What the hell is wrong with walking??? Oh of course - the kids may be abducted - despite the fact there are no more cases of "stranger" attacks than there has ever been. Good old media drumming up the scare tactics again!!!

"The news headlines often give the impression of paedophiles or killers on every street corner, murdering every passing child. The official statistics present a much different picture. According to government figures only five children are murdered by strangers each year in England and Wales, on average (6). Most child homicides are in fact committed by the parents. Over the last 25 years there has been no increase in child murder by strangers. The overall murder rate (all ages) is the same now as it was in 1857 (roughly 13 per million of the population per year) (7)."
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Old 04 September 2006, 10:09   #15
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You can tell this anti 4x4 site is staffed by blue sky thinkers....I was thinking of volunteering for them. I have so many cracking ideas:

1. Buses, if no -ones on board; a/ drop the fares or b/ pull over and stay there till more people turn up.
2. Commuters; get Jeremy Clarkson to convert your car into a small mobile home then you would not need to commute and could live in it outside work.
3. Polish people dont drive all the way across Europe to get to Britian how about working in France?
4. Bloated Labour MPs why not teleconference especially if you need to do any dodgy super casino shystering.
5. If someone offers you a cheap deal to the continent, accept it then give it to a 4x4 owner because they wont be able to do two things at once.
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Old 04 September 2006, 10:38   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorper
Not really Jono. I live in a very built up area where using large 4x4 vehicles for the school run / shopping is rather antisocial. I don't expect everyone to agree with that, but thats life

Good grief. If you're worried about the appeasing the militant environmentalists, don't let on that you actually own a powerboat. That'll send them into conniptions. Here are 10 reasons why you should sell your RIB:

1. You're not a commercial fisherman.

2. Your family and relatives can all fit in a 4x4 converted to a drift boat watertight enough to make the passage from Cuba to Miami (or would you be heading to Cuba? - I hear it's a real utopia over there).

3. We should relish breathing in the downtown air while driving our cars rather than inhaling an offshore breeze.

4. The money saved on your RIB could be used for the important things in life like sex, drugs and rock & roll.

5. If your grandchildren experience a RIB outing they might actually enjoy it enough that they eventually purchase their own. This could result in a proliferation of RIBs on the water and and a shortage of people diving there environmentally friendly cars in the cities.

6. You will be less likely to kill a swimmer the next time you go through a roped off swimming area by the beach at 40 knots.

7. After not doing #6 you will be even less likely to hit the reverse and get the child you just narrowly missed while aiming for the parent on the first run through.

8. While you will be more likely to injure people in other cars now that you are spending more time in your car rather than a boat, you will be much, much less likely to injure other people in boats.

9. You will spend a lot more time driving (since you no longer have the boat option).

10. You can obsess about what other people think about you while driving your car (in the city), rather than worrying about silly things like boueys and navigational instruments and such.
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Old 04 September 2006, 11:42   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorper
Not really Jono. I live in a very built up area where using large 4x4 vehicles for the school run / shopping is rather antisocial. I don't expect everyone to agree with that, but thats life
Why,
Economy?
my Discovery does 26mpg around town
my 2.0ltr Volvo did 23.
One of the suggested alternatives, a Chrysler Grand Voyager does just 21



Safety of others? have a look here Sydney news

So please explain why my Disco is anti-social and yet the Voyager is fine?
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Old 04 September 2006, 12:19   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kernow
So please explain why my Disco is anti-social and yet the Voyager is fine?
Really starting to regret light heartedly posting something from the BBC news website!

Size is my biggest complaint. A lot of the southsea streets are narrow, with limited parking, and big 4x4s are a pain to squeeze past and have huge turning circles. (It goes the same for the big estate cars too).
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Old 04 September 2006, 12:35   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thorper
....Size is my biggest complaint. A lot of the southsea streets are narrow, with limited parking, and big 4x4s are a pain to squeeze past ..
Interesting perception you have.. my LandRover 110 which you must agree is thought of as a pretty "big" 4X4 is actually an inch narrower than say a ford Mondeo... perhaps your driving skills and width judgement need to be sharpened up? I donít have any difficulty getting my vehicle into a regular sized car parking spaceÖ
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Old 04 September 2006, 12:43   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jono
I donít have any difficulty getting my vehicle into a regular sized car parking spaceÖ
yus butt de carrs eiver syde ennd upp az fkin rite orfs

gaRf
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