Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 12 August 2008, 03:57   #1
Member
 
lakelandterrier's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Gloucester
Boat name: Lunasea
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: Suzi 140
MMSI: 232005050
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,126
Radar reflector small RIB

I know this has been discussed in the past, but not for a while, and can bring out the odd strong view but....to maintain legal compliance I fel I should fit a radar reflector to my 4m Avon. It is used for estuary and inshore family trips, not fast coastal / off-shore stuff. In principle I agree that anything that helps your boat be seen is good, but I'm not convinced on the absolute need for small craft. That aside, if I can fit something that is practical and doesn't interfere with oyher things (e.g the more useful nav lights) I think I ought to consider it.

The A-frame is sing 35m tubing with the nav light mounted on top and I don't want to play around with the welded mount or mount the reflactor next to it fro obvious reasons.

What is there in the market that can be easily but securely mounted without obstructing the all round nav light and won't look out of place on a small RIB & A-Frame?

I understand the cheap cylinder types can be simply attached with cable ties, but are not that effective, but is that all that could practically be mounted?

I think the reflector would need to be clamped at the top of the A-frame vertical, not on the horizontal.

Without wanting to re-start the debate on whether all craft should legally be fitted with radar reflectors I'd appreciate some views and what works / doesn't.

LT
__________________

__________________
lakelandterrier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 August 2008, 04:46   #2
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Exmouth, Devon
Length: no boat
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 765
Take a look at either the Echomax or Tri-Lens radar reflectors, unless you want to spend 450+ on the Sea-Me active antenna.

There is a basemount Echomax 230, but not for the smaller 180 model yet (only mast mount, but you might be able to get something made up).
There is a version with an all-round white that might be useful depending on your existing setup. Note the newer 'extreme' version for 15kts+ use.

The Tri-Lens has 2 sizes you might consider - standard and mini.

Only the large size Echomax and Tri-Lens units actually fulfil the ISO8729 standard but they will probably be too big for you (but one could argue the smaller the boat, the larger the reflector needed).

Either type needs to be mounted clear of obstructions, such as bits of the A-frame, to avoid shadowing.

If you do a Google search for 'radar reflector tests', you'll find various MAIB and QinetiQ performance reports. For a planing boat, you can ignore any negative comments about effectiveness when heeled over - hopefully you won't be! Some of the tests are quite dated and product specs may have changed. Here's the one following the Ouzo incident

As always, there's no substitute for keeping a good watch and knowing what's going on around you.
__________________

__________________
www.allgadgets.co.uk
Tel 01395 227727
MikeCC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 August 2008, 07:48   #3
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: swansea
Boat name: Too Blue
Make: BLANK
Length: 8m +
Engine: Suzuki DT225
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,791
The tri lens has to be the best for a RIB - looks a lot better than having a dustbin on your roof!!! Much more compact and looks cool..........
__________________
codprawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 August 2008, 08:32   #4
Member
 
Cookee's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Salcombe, Devon, UK
Boat name: BananaShark
Make: BananaShark
Length: 10m +
Engine: 2xYanmar 260 diesels
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,225
I appreciate you don't want to start a debate, but where did you see that you are legally obliged to fit a reflector?
__________________
Cookee
Originally Posted by Zippy
When a boat looks that good who needs tubes!!!
Cookee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 August 2008, 09:12   #5
Member
 
Bern Hanreck's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Norfolk/Suffolk Borders
Boat name: La Bamba
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: F100 Yam / 5Hp Suz
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 707
without wishing to put words into Lakelandterrier's mouth

This was one " official " piece of advise , which does however use the phrase
" if practicable "...

http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/solas.pdf
__________________
Bern Hanreck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 August 2008, 10:02   #6
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Exmouth, Devon
Length: no boat
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 765
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bern Hanreck View Post
This was one " official " piece of advise , which does however use the phrase
" if practicable "...

http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/solas.pdf
That's the one. While I would be delighted if it was a legal requirement (and lifejackets, VHF radios, PLBs etc etc ), I believe it is only an advisory. After all, if you just potter about on the upper reaches of a river, it would be a bit pointless.
__________________
www.allgadgets.co.uk
Tel 01395 227727
MikeCC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 August 2008, 13:28   #7
Member
 
lakelandterrier's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Gloucester
Boat name: Lunasea
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: Suzi 140
MMSI: 232005050
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,126
AS far as "practicable" is concerned, I can see the MCA arguing that is not impractical to fit an-A-frame or pole mast to a rib, and if you have one of these, then it is not not practicable to fit a radar reflector if you venture into tidal waters. You know what the authorities are like for fining people for the easy things they can.
__________________
lakelandterrier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13 August 2008, 18:20   #8
Member
 
m chappelow's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: yorkshire
Boat name: little vicky
Make: avon ex RNLI
Length: 3m +
Engine: tohatsu
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,310
as you said earlier on , best not to get into which reflector is the best one ,though many of the small long thin tube types may be up to standards and approval but what conditions were they tested at , bit different in a lab test or ideal conditions to get the product through the test, different when your bobbing about in a lumpy sea at 3o knots ,as regards the legal side of things the RNLI d class sibs dont carry them and they can operate at night . any how radar is only as good as the operater thats why ships still crash into each other even when fitted with radar , you cant beat a good look out at all times .
__________________
m chappelow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 August 2008, 14:55   #9
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: NW& wherever the boat is!
Boat name: depends on m'mood!
Make: Humbers/15-24m cats
Length: 6m +
Engine: etec130/big volvos
MMSI: many and various
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 1,815
from memory, cos I'm not at home, SOLAS V regs require three things for UK vessels if proceeding to sea
1) a table of lifesaving signals
2) a passage plan
3) a radar reflector (if practical to fit)

If you have an A frame I doubt you can argue that it is impractical. From experience of delivering fast commercial boats across the channel small boats can be virtually invisible on the radar. We have been alongside and had a chat with a Dutch 6m fast fishing cruiser miles out from shore when crossing to the Netherlands and he never showed on our radar, and had no radar reflector. We saw him visually only as we came in to have a look at a wreck mark we fancied fishing for an hour. The phrase "that B******s on our wreck" was substituted for ship ahoy!
The phrase "when proceeding to sea" is critical and I believe has been taken to mean when leaving categorised waters so you wouldnt need one "pottering about" up rivers- but of course only a court can ......etc
I know our ribs show on a local RoRo vessels radar cos we have talked with him by vhf when operating in fog and he told us he could see two blips at our position-now whether thats from the engines or the reflectors maybe another matter altogether
__________________
Dave M
www.wavelengthtraining.co.uk
wavelength is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 August 2008, 17:26   #10
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: swansea
Boat name: Too Blue
Make: BLANK
Length: 8m +
Engine: Suzuki DT225
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,791
Where practical is pretty ambiguous

Is it practical to fit smaller reflectors such as the tube type that are next to useless?

Also they have to be mounted in the correct position - if there is something like a light or whatever on top of the A frame is there any point in mounting them at an angle?
__________________

__________________
codprawn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 15:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.