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Old 31 January 2003, 12:26   #21
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Originally posted by MarkWildey
Did i mention that I had a beer in one hand and a scotch egg in the other while doing 35kn in fog !
That's OK, because the big ships don't go out in the fog.

Came back from Cherbourg in a pea souper a couple of years back and didn't see a single soul out on the water. They obviously all stayed at home!

John
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Old 31 January 2003, 14:07   #22
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Personally I don't like fog at sea and prefer to use seamanship and say no thanks, next time. That from doing it with a compass, chart and mark one eyeball.
On a yacht, the way that sound travels (especially breaking waves on a shore that you cant see), I find it spooky!!!

In terms of fog and equipment, I'd take the radar reflector first, the plotter second and then radar. I think that is the correct order for most boats not just RIB's on a safety and practicality basis. Radar is a luxury on a RIB's, but if you have a RIB big enough go for it.

Couple of points

1.
How do you keep a good lookout, without standing up and the radar cooking your head?
Most A frames I have seen are not that high, certainly not many are strong enough for a radar bracket 2m+ higher than the deck.

2.
Perhaps it is a wise point to explain to the crew how to work the radar!

As most of us cant do two things at once and if you want to go at a safe speed, the driver needs to listen and look around while the crew monitors the radar.

On ships some accident have occured due to what I think was called radar blindness or saturation. The person looked at the radar so much that they lost contact of the reality around them.

Now with a chart plotter on hand its less likely you will be lost, but you are looking down at a screen rather than in front or even behind.

I mention behind because there's always someone fast than you, so mind the sea cat when crossing the channel!.
For that matter, some container ships will do 25 knots up the channel if they are late also, so in fog they might slow to say 20 knots.

So as I said, all the sameI would rather stay in bed.
Daft i know, its only low cloud

Tiger
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Old 31 January 2003, 14:30   #23
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Its worth bearing in mind that once you fit a Radar you are responsible to use it efficiently at sea,in law in that you must keep an adequate look out and use all means available.


There are some good target enhancers that can help in order that other boats may see you.But obviously dont help you see them.

Also cos these are powerd by your batteries they have there limitations.Were a big ships radar opperates on x band and Y band these Target enhancers only opperate on one band at present,so its critical to have a good radar reflector.

In fog or heavy rain you will not catch us at anything over 10 knts as Mr P says.

If your going for Radar then I would recomend the Combind/Plotter units with overlay. They make it easier to recognise the position of land or boats in relation to your own ships position.Anything that makes things easier at sea is a big plus point for me,especielly when its a bit of a dog with the weather.

As far as Microwaves go then havnt got a clue,I suppose on a wheelhouse rib you can put some lineing in the roof but have to be carefull as its the last place you want extra weight as it increases the centre of gravity,and may make her top heavy depending on material weight ect.

Good luck and ask around for best Radar/plotter
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Old 31 January 2003, 17:44   #24
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Frying you brain....

Yes, the frame to support the radar scanner has to be at a sensible height. But, I mount the frame not at the stern but just behind the seating so the beam is still very narrow where it passes over crews' heads. A frame at this position also has other benefits too.
JW.
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Old 31 January 2003, 18:08   #25
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Still have slight problem with a 10 feet high radome having a horizon of 3.5 miles, (5 feet 2.5 miles), 30 knots, <4 minutes - if the target is low and static. If its higher - more, if it's moving towards you - less. If you're coxing the boat as opposed to looking at the radar - bang. Useful if you have a dedicated crew, but agree with Alan, fairly well down the list of need.
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Old 31 January 2003, 18:31   #26
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I think its fair to say you're absolutely right,If its clear you're going to do 30knts+ and for short range targets the eyeball is the best , and you will be running Radar for any larger targets offshore.

If visibility is down then speed should be down and then its eyeball and luggs even more but at a reduced speed,With your Radar on in the hope it will pick stuff up you cant see.

You can totaly navigate with radar and a paper chart only,but it is at displacement speed ,and its an eye opener

It is well known that the best thing in bad visibility is your eyeball and a pair of elephant ears. With a radar in the background as a bit of comfort especially when you hear that dreaded swishing noise that gets louder in fog at night as it comes your way.

Plot its position and get out the way.
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Old 31 January 2003, 19:23   #27
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Radar

Just a few points.

So. Your eyes are lower that the scanner. You can't see as far as the radar can.
Are everyones eyes 20-20?
If you wear specks and have an open rib in the rain, how far can you see clearly?
Most targets that matter are much taller than 5ft. Not all, but most.
The assumption that a collision will be directly head to head is a bit iffy. Are you happy to power into the side of an ocean liner in a fog?
You can use the radar for much more that just collision avoidance.
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Old 31 January 2003, 20:42   #28
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I have to say that im for Radar as a Nav aid,given the choice there are situations where a Radar is the main nav tool for saftey,the conditons are those that big offshore ribs experience,that travel maybe day and night.

On a small rib that only ventures offshore in good conditons and maybe in company then it proberbly isnt that significant.Im of the belief that the conditions encounted in the Irish Sea if it is used as a cruising ground offshore then its a must as are other pieces of kit.

Its a combination of imformation that gets us from A to B and as big ribs start to become recognised as the ultimate cruising tools for the future ,then Radar will also be recognised as standard issue for these sort of boats.

As you say if you havnt got 20/20 vision and your vision is slightly impared by the conditions then that is even more a good reason to fit radar.

Any voyage takeing a boat offshore that could encounter a different weather pattern whilst out at sea should serieosly consider Radar,not as a extra but as a necessity.

Large ribs who go it alone cant depend on others ,therefore I am sold on this piece of kit,when used correctly,it also transmits your possition to other ships and is the best radar enhancer you will ever get.

The problem is you dont no what you missed or missed you if you havnt got one.

The real point here is you cant do 30+ knts in fog and you wouldnt dream of it,as if you did you wont be here for long.And neither will you crew.
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Old 01 February 2003, 13:02   #29
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Hi folks

Agree with whats is being said here apart from one point.

The use of "a pair of elephant ears".

On a yacht your ears can detect things in fog etc well before you see them because its quite. Not so on a RIB. I belive your ears are next to useless while the engine is running and you are underway at anything more than tickover at best.

Regards Gary
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Old 01 February 2003, 15:41   #30
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Garygee Your correct as far as doing any speed is concernd.

In my discription I was relating it to a real Pea sooper,the sort of thing where you can only see ,maybe 10 mtrs in front of the ships head.Its happend twice to us ,once we were out with a Yachtmaster instructer whos fan belt came off,and he couldnt start the engine, east of the Kish Bank.He hadnt got a spare so pop went the radio,and pop went the radar,and plotter after running them for an hour,as he couldnt start the engine.It was3 am and we were in the main shipping channel.

He then decided that he thought he could see a flashing white off the port bow,so he promptly stuck the avon redcrest over the side and jumped in with no life jacket on in the hope of towing the 17 ton yacht nearer the light to confirm our position,plop went the 2.2 Tohatsu for about two minits untill it to ran out of juice.We happily listend to the Swish Swish and thud thud all night long as we drifted around,We must of decided as we were having such fun to stay up all night,sleep just didnt seem to bothere us any more!.

We have a single very quiet 4 stroke thirtey wing engine with controls on the back of the wheelhouse and a seat for trolling at 8 knts,thats where I will be if we are unfortunat enough to hit a big Fog.My crew on the Radar shouting out if they see any targets.I want to be outside in Big fog,not in a wheelhouse.Man on the Bow, crew on the radar me outside and doing 8 knts max.

Im sure some will disagree but we all run our boats different and if you have ever owned a yacht and sailed into fog ,you will hear a boat before you see her.Thats what happend to us on two occasions, any more speed is unsafe to me as we would of truly hit other boats,if they hadnt shown up on radar.

I suppose the other thing to always carry is a spare fan belt. It may be more important than a Radar.
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