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Old 10 October 2017, 12:19   #1
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Old school handheld VHF & A PLB or a DSC handheld only

What would you chose guys (both options have similar cost)

Options for personal PFD jacket carry using a SIB and going to remote locations.

1: an old school no frill but Boyant handheld VHF and a pocket size PLB.

2: The latest specification Icom handheld VHF with DSC distress capability including icons new automatic 'in water' sent with a DSC distress, (if the radio is in water it will sense this and include that information in the coded DSC message)
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Old 10 October 2017, 12:28   #2
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Option 1
You have 2 separate technologies available.
Also 2 independently powered devices
If you're not line of sight the benefit f HH vhf is limited, the plb talks to the stars
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Old 10 October 2017, 12:28   #3
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Option 1
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Old 10 October 2017, 14:01   #4
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Another vote for option 1
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Old 10 October 2017, 14:50   #5
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I'd go for option 1.

Then, I'd sell that Gulfmaster watch and buy the DSC VHF as well, trading the old one in - if it's not a POS, which I suspect it may be?

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Old 10 October 2017, 15:27   #6
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Originally Posted by Lee1 View Post
2: The latest specification Icom handheld VHF with DSC distress capability including icons new automatic 'in water' sent with a DSC distress, (if the radio is in water it will sense this and include that information in the coded DSC message)
If I'm pressing the red button the sh17 has hit the fan. I'm either in the water or something very significant has happened on board. I'm not sending a HH VHF DSC Alert from a RIB or a SIB for a grounding.

So while it sounds good it can work out i'm in the water and flag the alert as a MOB, I'm not clear what difference it would make to my rescue.

If I'm hitting red and the voice call is not sufficient to explain my situation, even with a good Ux I'm probably sending an unspecified alert...
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Old 10 October 2017, 16:10   #7
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I'd go for option 1.

Then, I'd sell that Gulfmaster watch and buy the DSC VHF as well, trading the old one in - if it's not a POS, which I suspect it may be?

Seems a bit bitchy! I'm not quite sure what you mean by POS but if it's relates to my advertising the watch then your wrong as there is no link to buy the watch nor do I mention where I brought the watch, my gulfman watch review was posted as my personal new cheap boating watch option that has several useful boating user modes but irrelevant to this thread and the OP!
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Old 10 October 2017, 16:24   #8
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..but irrelevant to this thread and the OP!
I'd argue it's relevant. You're thinking along the right lines, but asking us to chose one of what I consider to be two bad options. You're safer with both - that's my answer. I know you can afford the solution, which was my point.
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Old 10 October 2017, 16:26   #9
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Old 10 October 2017, 16:33   #10
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If I'm pressing the red button the sh17 has hit the fan. I'm either in the water or something very significant has happened on board. I'm not sending a HH VHF DSC Alert from a RIB or a SIB for a grounding.

So while it sounds good it can work out i'm in the water and flag the alert as a MOB, I'm not clear what difference it would make to my rescue.

If I'm hitting red and the voice call is not sufficient to explain my situation, even with a good Ux I'm probably sending an unspecified alert...
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Originally Posted by ShinyShoe View Post
If I'm pressing the red button the sh17 has hit the fan. I'm either in the water or something very significant has happened on board. I'm not sending a HH VHF DSC Alert from a RIB or a SIB for a grounding.

So while it sounds good it can work out i'm in the water and flag the alert as a MOB, I'm not clear what difference it would make to my rescue.

If I'm hitting red and the voice call is not sufficient to explain my situation, even with a good Ux I'm probably sending an unspecified alert...
The Icom MOB information sent in the DSC is what made me post the thread And I'm wondering how a MOB encoded in Icom DSC mayday will be responded to by the CG will it be seen as more urgent than a standard DSC mayday, my theory is this. . .
I think this MOB information has been added to a DSC mayday by Icom for this reason: When a push button DSC is received the CG will always reply by VHF to get more information and most likely to check that it's not a false alarm and if they receive no reply they keep calling for a while and if they receive no response they then decide whether to deploy or not, (after they have requested any other vessels if they can assist in the mean time) I think Icom have realised that in many suitiations persons in small craft are more likely to end up in the water after they have held back calling in a mayday and in that situation you will not able to speak on the VHF whilst your either holding on to your rib or sib or swimming for your life, so I think the MOB sent in a DSC mayday indicates to the CG they are unlikely to receive a reply to their VHF voice calling and as the DSC message indicates the radio in the water it is indeed a very serious situation.
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Old 10 October 2017, 16:38   #11
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I think you need to ask the coastguard.
Remember that your vhf usable range in the water is very limited by your lack of elevation.
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Old 10 October 2017, 16:46   #12
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I'd argue it's relevant. You're thinking along the right lines, but asking us to chose one of what I consider to be two bad options. You're safer with both - that's my answer. I know you can afford the solution, which was my point.
My 1 and 2 options were picked as I don't really want 2 location devices and I want to keep what ever I carry on my PFD as small as possible the DSC radios are big and have more electronics than a basic VHF thus more chance of failure than a basic VHF floater which is small but I would be carrying a pocket PLB as well but they are also small, I do not want to carry 2 location devises as rescue then becomes obsessive and with DSC and PLB together I got to decide which electronic GPS mayday service do I deploy first?
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Old 10 October 2017, 16:49   #13
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...with DSC and PLB together I got to decide which electronic GPS mayday service do I deploy first?
Easy question. DSC first as it's instant and works well in busy inshore waters (S-East UK), followed by PLB as it works everywhere but takes a while to gain some traction - by which time you might be dead.
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Old 10 October 2017, 16:52   #14
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I think you need to ask the coastguard.
Remember that your vhf usable range in the water is very limited by your lack of elevation.
Good point and handheld DSC will only be 6 watts, it would be ok and almost guaranteed to be received by shore stations or repeaters if your out at least 1km off shore but you won't get received from such stations if transmitting from within a high cliffed bay/cove or if your tight against the shore.
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Old 10 October 2017, 18:55   #15
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And I'm wondering how a MOB encoded in Icom DSC mayday will be responded to by the CG will it be seen as more urgent than a standard DSC mayday, ... ... so I think the MOB sent in a DSC mayday indicates to the CG they are unlikely to receive a reply to their VHF voice calling and as the DSC message indicates the radio in the water it is indeed a very serious situation.
All Maydays are very serious situations (by definition). Any DSC without a voice response simply confirms it. I doubt you'll get the C.G. to admit that they would respond any faster because the message says in water.

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My 1 and 2 options were picked as I don't really want 2 location devices
double you chances of 1 doing its job though...
Quote:
DSC radios are big and have more electronics than a basic VHF thus more chance of failure than a basic VHF floater which is small
interesting presumption. I'm not sure the most common failure modes will have anything to do with the extra components - dodgy switches, water ingress, corroded battery contacts, batteries that won't hold charge and aerial connection issues are almost certainly more common than microcontroller, PCB or surface mount component failure.
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I do not want to carry 2 location devises as rescue then becomes obsessive and with DSC and PLB together I got to decide which electronic GPS mayday service do I deploy first?
have a search for MustRIB's issues in the middle of the Irish Sea. The fact he was carrying both probably saved his life. Then look up the MAIB report from Mingulay Bay, and tell us why you would make try PLB before DSC.

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Good point and handheld DSC will only be 6 watts, it would be ok and almost guaranteed to be received by shore stations or repeaters if your out at least 1km off shore but you won't get received from such stations if transmitting from within a high cliffed bay/cove or if your tight against the shore.
In calm seas you might be right. Don't assume that in big waves you have line of sight to a mast from sea level (and VHF doesn't go through water). With DSC you do stand more chance of getting something meaningful out if you only have intermittent signal. Bear in mind though that the CG aren't the only people listening to VHF/DSC so even close to a cliff doesn't mean nobody else will hear.
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Old 11 October 2017, 10:37   #16
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Hi Lee
I dont quite understand your comment that
"I do not want to carry 2 location devises as rescue then becomes obsessive "
If I hadn't been carrying two devices I doubt I would be here to write this.

My advice - PLB, VHF (Dsc or not), Phone in a waterproof bag, mini flares, laser flare,
give yourself some redundancy. If you are unfortunate enough to find yourself in trouble,
you may find yourself putting all your hopes for rescue on the one device you chose.
I hope it works for you, or hasn't been dropped, mislaid or forgotten, or damaged at just the time you need it.
Make the space to carry a few devices/things on your person, and make sure they are well attached to you.
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Old 11 October 2017, 12:21   #17
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I must confess to carrying PLB and EDF and HH and IPhone in bag on LJ plus have flares as well so belt and braces!!
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Old 11 October 2017, 15:25   #18
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Hand held floating VHF* and PLB on me with fixed DSC VHF on board and led flare, phone etc in grab bag. Not usually (intentionally) more than a couple of miles from shore
*Itís a Cobra mind you
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Old 12 October 2017, 16:56   #19
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Hi Lee
I dont quite understand your comment that
"I do not want to carry 2 location devises as rescue then becomes obsessive "
If I hadn't been carrying two devices I doubt I would be here to write this.

My advice - PLB, VHF (Dsc or not), Phone in a waterproof bag, mini flares, laser flare,
give yourself some redundancy. If you are unfortunate enough to find yourself in trouble,
you may find yourself putting all your hopes for rescue on the one device you chose.
I hope it works for you, or hasn't been dropped, mislaid or forgotten, or damaged at just the time you need it.
Make the space to carry a few devices/things on your person, and make sure they are well attached to you.
I carry a SIB grab bag (not a bag as such but a Pelicans case) with a VHF handheld, more than enough of all flare types, two small basic mobile phones, signal mirror, compass, military grade strobe, first aid, foil blankets, survival bag etc etc (other survival gear) but I want to keep my personal PFD carry as small (only small pockets) as possible and the choice I'm thinking about is how big and bulky the DSC radios are compared to a small no frills one giving me soace for a small PLB I currently carry on myself and on the jacket a load of gear as it is: VHF, smallest possible waterproof mobile, mini flares, knife, strobe, compass, torch, batteries, signal mirror, fire kit, and multi tool, in the PDF big back pouch I carry, foil blanket/shelter double survival bag, paracord and zip ties and depending where I'm going and what I'm doing a bag survival litre of water I'm sure there more as well lol (jacket is a delta ranger) I am more likely to get into trouble in remote bays than far out at sea as I do a good lot of shoreline foraging and overnight beach camps in conjunction with my bushcraft and survival activities and I and friends have found were going more and more remote lately and i/we have had a tricky situation more than once over the last few years and I can see it's time to not be in a position that I/we can not deal with in full quickly.
Up to now Ive have carried a small VHF on my PFD and it's time for me to get a PLB as well or upgrade the VHF to DSC No doubt if I go for a VHF DSC for personal PFD carry I will no doubt get a PLB for the grab box later on, but from a previous experience I learnt fast that once your out of a SIB and parted a good few waves from it getting back to it is not as a easy as one thinks lol
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Old 12 October 2017, 17:26   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee1 View Post
I carry a SIB grab bag (not a bag as such but a Pelicans case) with a VHF handheld, more than enough of all flare types, two small basic mobile phones, signal mirror, compass, military grade strobe, first aid, foil blankets, survival bag etc etc (other survival gear) but I want to keep my personal PFD carry as small (only small pockets) as possible and the choice I'm thinking about is how big and bulky the DSC radios are compared to a small no frills one giving me soace for a small PLB I currently carry on myself and on the jacket a load of gear as it is: VHF, smallest possible waterproof mobile, mini flares, knife, strobe, compass, torch, batteries, signal mirror, fire kit, and multi tool, in the PDF big back pouch I carry, foil blanket/shelter double survival bag, paracord and zip ties and depending where I'm going and what I'm doing a bag survival litre of water I'm sure there more as well lol (jacket is a delta ranger) I am more likely to get into trouble in remote bays than far out at sea as I do a good lot of shoreline foraging and overnight beach camps in conjunction with my bushcraft and survival activities and I and friends have found were going more and more remote lately and i/we have had a tricky situation more than once over the last few years and I can see it's time to not be in a position that I/we can not deal with in full quickly.
Up to now Ive have carried a small VHF on my PFD and it's time for me to get a PLB as well or upgrade the VHF to DSC No doubt if I go for a VHF DSC for personal PFD carry I will no doubt get a PLB for the grab box later on, but from a previous experience I learnt fast that once your out of a SIB and parted a good few waves from it getting back to it is not as a easy as one thinks lol


Blimey! I've crossed the Irish Sea with less kit, are you "prepping" for the zombie apocalypse?
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