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Old 04 November 2017, 16:12   #1
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mmsi question

hi I have just bought a new rib on the console is a sticker with vessel call sign and mmsi no .there is no vhf fitted .my last rib had a vhf and I had an mmsi no .now when I buy my new craft a vhf will I use the mmsi no I was issued for my last rib or the one on the sticker on the new boat or do I apply for a completely new one for the new vhf sorry if this is a dumb question but I have the license but haven't done a vhf course yet .the vhf will only be used in an emergency. if anyone can clarify I would be gratefull
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Old 04 November 2017, 16:29   #2
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Get a new one for a new radio. It's far easier than trying to re program an old radio
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Old 04 November 2017, 16:30   #3
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ok thanks
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Old 04 November 2017, 19:08   #4
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mmsi question

Call signs and MMSI numbers are issued to a vessel and remain there for life, unless it changes to a foreign registry. Get in touch with Ofcom and they will re-assign that callsign and number to you as the current keeper. Please go and do your VHF/SRC licence, it is a legal requirement that someone on board has authority to operate and it helps keep the likes of me in a job!!
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Old 04 November 2017, 19:48   #5
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Call signs and MMSI numbers are issued to a vessel and remain there for life, unless it changes to a foreign registry. Get in touch with Ofcom and they will re-assign that callsign and number to you as the current keeper.
Correct. BUT...

The boat has had a DSC set in it that now isn't. That makes me think the previous owner now took the old radio with him to install on his new boat. While he should re-programme the MMSI there is a risk he won't so there will be two boats with one MMSI. So I'd just get a new MMSI.

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Please go and do your VHF/SRC licence, it is a legal requirement that someone on board has authority to operate and it helps keep the likes of me in a job!!
I assume you are a VHF Instructor / Examiner. In which case you should know that is not correct. You should have said: it is a legal requirement that someone on board has authority to operate other than in an emergency.

I'm not discouraging beerbelly from doing his operator certificate (he should), just making the point that there is no legal requirement to have an operator on board, and that in an emergency the law specifically allows anyone to use the kit.
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Old 04 November 2017, 20:11   #6
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mmsi question

We’re splitting hairs here for a major item, possibly the most important piece of safety equipment! VHF is essential for anyone who takes a rib or any other vessel on the sea. Why wouldn’t I encourage Beerbelly to do so. Of course anyone can use a VHF in an emergency, but I think not doing the training and gaining the certification is a dangerous pathway to start down. I have been in charge of lifeboats on many occasions, trying to rescue people who don’t take the correct precautions for their own safety as well as that of others. As for the other owner keeping the VHF, that’s their problem. The regs are dead simple. The boat has the callsign and MMSI for life, and Ofcom would/should not issue a different number to a vessel previously recorded on their database. Let’s not race to the bottom!
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Old 05 November 2017, 02:01   #7
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ok thanks for the input and lets not turn this into a heated debate I am fully aware that I'm not allowed to use the vhf but for emergency's. i also take my own and my passengers safety very seriously I have pb2 and have had a safety check from the rnli. I just wanted to know if when I fix a new vhf do I use the mmsi that's with the boat or get a new one. I think the point made about there possibly being another vhf out there with my no programed into it to save any possible confusion I would be best giving my boat a new call sign and getting a new mmsi .(now to the precarious subject of re naming boats)
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Old 05 November 2017, 03:05   #8
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Register with ofcom, buy a new vhf and program with your given mmsi, almost certainly the one that is with the boat now.
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Old 05 November 2017, 05:31   #9
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Originally Posted by beerbelly View Post
ok thanks for the input and lets not turn this into a heated debate
Lol - watch this:

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Originally Posted by ShinyShoe View Post
The boat has had a DSC set in it that now isn't. That makes me think the previous owner now took the old radio with him to install on his new boat. While he should re-programme the MMSI there is a risk he won't so there will be two boats with one MMSI. So I'd just get a new MMSI.
Pure supposition. "A car sped past me at 120mph yer honour, so I assumed there was a forest fire behind it and matched it's speed."

beerbelly - as you now know, the MMSI stays with the boat. I don't see where you say a VHF was removed from the boat? Is there a "missing" set - i.e. hole/wiring and can you contact the previous to ask what happened? Possibly the set was broken, never fitted, returned to dealer for reprogramming. If I was going to keep a set, I wouldn't leave the MMSI numbers on the old boat -
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Old 05 November 2017, 06:26   #10
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Originally Posted by beerbelly View Post
ok thanks for the input and lets not turn this into a heated debate I am fully aware that I'm not allowed to use the vhf but for emergency's. i also take my own and my passengers safety very seriously I have pb2 and have had a safety check from the rnli.
I never said you did. The RYA Instructor / Examiner who openly said he wants to part you with your cash did, while implying you couldn't have a VHF on the boat without someone with the ticket to use it was the one who thinks you are basically dangling you and your family off a cliff on a piece of thread.

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Lol - watch this:
Pure supposition. "A car sped past me at 120mph yer honour, so I assumed there was a forest fire behind it and matched it's speed."

beerbelly - as you now know, the MMSI stays with the boat. I don't see where you say a VHF was removed from the boat? Is there a "missing" set - i.e. hole/wiring and can you contact the previous to ask what happened? Possibly the set was broken, never fitted, returned to dealer for reprogramming. If I was going to keep a set, I wouldn't leave the MMSI numbers on the old boat -
Quote:
Originally Posted by beerbelly
I think the point made about there possibly being another vhf out there with my no programmed into it to save any possible confusion I would be best giving my boat a new call sign and getting a new mmsi .
Willk you are absolutely correct - I have had to make some assumptions by joining some dots. The facts seem to be:
  • There is an MMSI Number on the Boat
  • There is a new DSC radio being purchased
I have assumed that the existing DSC is absent rather than being upgraded. (Surely it must be - beerbelly hasn't started a 'should I upgrade my DSC thread!' or 'can anyone tell me how to get this DSC to work thread').

You are right. There may never even have been a DSC. Or it may have died and been removed. My gut feel is still the radio has been removed either to go on a new boat or to sell on. We all know reprogramming MMSIs is a PITA so the chances of the set being reprogrammed if the old owner he has put it on his
replacement RIB are low IMHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Zodiac View Post
We’re splitting hairs here for a major item, possibly the most important piece of safety equipment! VHF is essential for anyone who takes a rib or any other vessel on the sea. Why wouldn’t I encourage Beerbelly to do so. Of course anyone can use a VHF in an emergency, but I think not doing the training and gaining the certification is a dangerous pathway to start down.
I agree that a VHF is a good bit of safety kit. I'm assuming some even more essentials like lifejacket and anchor are already sorted. Not everyone actually does agree. And the process of getting a piece of paper that no-one ever asks to see is very certainly a deterent.

I completely support that people should be encouraged to learn to use the kit. But its ironic that I can buy a 300HP RIB, with no anchor, no life jackets, never having driven a boat in my life and no-one can do jack sh17 about it. Yet as soon as I transmit on channel 80 to the marina to ask them to open the lock gate in theory if I don't have a certificate I can be arrested?

So my preference would be that every boat had a VHF and none had a certificate to use it than none had a VHF at all because they didn't have the piece of paper. While everyone says "of course you can use a VHF in an emergency" they need to understand that is a specific legal exclusion rather than no-one is likely to prosecute you for using it in an emergency. This would be different from driving at 120MPH to escape a forest fire. There is no legal way you can drive a normal car on a road at 120MPH. You probably wont get prosecuted for it if you were escaping a forest fire, and if you did a court may well decide not to punish you. But you'd still have had to break the law.

If you have NO use for a VHF other than in an emergency (or only use on M1/ M2 ;-) ) then it has to be better to fit the VHF without the paperwork to use it than to decide not to fit. That sounds like what beerbelly has currently done. As his ribbing evolves he knows he may have uses and plans to train.

My argument (believe it or not - I am on the side of we should train VHF users) is that when beerbelly gets into a spot of bother that isn't a full on emergency he may not use his VHF for fear that the Liverpool Lifeboat man will be checking his paperwork. So he waits while trying to fix the problem himself. That turns into an emergency. by which time the lifeboat crew are taking risks to hel rather than just towing him in.

Quote:
As for the other owner keeping the VHF, that’s their problem.
Is it?
Yes legally it is - you are right, he shouldn't keep it. But IF he has how confusing will it be if beerbelly presses the big red button? That will be beerbelly's problem. The coastgaurd call beerbelly back, but by misfortune his reception is poor but the other guy is on the water. He responds he isn't in distress. CG tell him is red button was pressed. He says "Oh I must have a fault on my radio and switches off". Meanwhile beerbelly is drifting helpless...

Maybe that's an extreme example - but what is the risks for the boat being given a new MMSI?

Quote:
The regs are dead simple. The boat has the callsign and MMSI for life, and Ofcom would/should not issue a different number to a vessel previously recorded on their database.
Have you asked them?

I'm certain Ofcom would say exactly what Willk said. Contact the guy who sold you the boat and find out the fate of the old radio. When he says "Not me gov that sticker was on the boat when I bought it". Ofcom would then try to contact the registered owner they have. Who will not respond because the contact details will be ancient. Ofcom will then deem it safer to issue a new MMSI (there is no risk with the boat having an updated MMSI). I say this with certainty - because I know cases on yachts where exactly that has happened.

If the original owner moved the DSC from his RIB to a yacht that will cause major issues. If he moved it from one RIB to an almost identical RIB (similar size, colour etc) - would anyone notice.

Likewise if beerbelly simply applies for a new MMSI how would OfCom know this boat has a previous MMSI. He has now told us he is thinking of changing name so even less likely.
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Old 05 November 2017, 06:27   #11
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Lol - watch this
You are welcome ;-)
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Old 05 November 2017, 08:30   #12
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crikey wish id never asked its sorted thanks chaps the new rib has stickers with call sign boat name and mmsi no but no sign of a vhf being fitted. so I assume it was a handheld dsc . anyway I went on the ofcom site to surrender the license for my old boat and apply for one for this one when asked if the boat had a mmsi and call sign I entered the ones off the boat but the ofcom website said it didn't recognize them .so I put don't know as an answer and they have issued me with new numbers and call sign .so alls well etc etc
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Old 05 November 2017, 08:41   #13
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But its ironic that I can buy a 300HP RIB, with no anchor, no life jackets, never having driven a boat in my life and no-one can do jack sh17 about it. Yet as soon as I transmit on channel 80 to the marina to ask them to open the lock gate in theory if I don't have a certificate I can be arrested?

You can also walk into a car showroom & legally buy a car without a licence, test, insurance etc. You only commit a crime when you drive it on the public highway. Because up until that point, all you have done is purchased an item. You haven't endangered anyone else, it's the use that is the issue.
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Old 05 November 2017, 09:31   #14
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Old 05 November 2017, 10:29   #15
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Old 05 November 2017, 10:53   #16
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He has now told us he is thinking of changing name so even less likely.
I think that's a capital idea! "Beerbelly" lacks a certain je ne sais quoi - maybe "Bellydancer" would be a little more memorable? I'll check with JK to see if he'll swap it out
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Old 05 November 2017, 10:54   #17
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Oh!

You meant the boat, didn't you?

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Old 05 November 2017, 13:30   #18
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Nobody watching fireworks then? Or getting ready to go
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Old 05 November 2017, 13:31   #19
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Old 05 November 2017, 13:47   #20
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crikey wish id never asked its sorted thanks chaps the new rib has stickers with call sign boat name and mmsi no but no sign of a vhf being fitted. so I assume it was a handheld dsc . anyway I went on the ofcom site to surrender the license for my old boat and apply for one for this one when asked if the boat had a mmsi and call sign I entered the ones off the boat but the ofcom website said it didn't recognize them .so I put don't know as an answer and they have issued me with new numbers and call sign .so alls well etc etc
Result!
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