Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 26 August 2011, 19:25   #1
njs
Member
 
njs's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Cornwall
Boat name: Flippa
Make: Prestidge 555 (5.8)
Length: 5m +
Engine: 115 Mariner Opti
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 17
How much Battery Drain

Hi,
I have wired my bilge directly to my battery due to her being kept on a mooring, my question is how much battery drain will their be?

She has one of these small Rule 500 computerised bilge pumps and a small solar pannel attached to the battery but I am unsure how powerful (not very) battery is 85ah and fairly new.

Any advise would be much appreciated.
__________________
njs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 August 2011, 19:50   #2
Member
 
Country: Other
Town: Rosas
Boat name: Conqueror
Make: Valiant
Length: 7m +
Engine: Outboard 150hp Merc
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 549
Send a message via Skype™ to Courageous
Hi and welcome to the forum. This pump draws around 2 amps. Given average lead acid battery efficiency you are likely to get around 30 hours or so from a reasonably fully charged condition. At 500 gallons per hour you'd be looking at shifting 15000 gallons of 'oggin or rainwater. Your solar panel will probably take up the slack on that in reality unless you have a very leaky boat IMHO.
__________________
Courageous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 August 2011, 20:05   #3
Member
 
Country: USA
Town: Seattle
Boat name: Water Dog
Make: Polaris
Length: 4m +
Engine: Yamaha 60hp
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,152
The rule 500 will never pump 500gal/hr installed (or any other centrifugal pump for that matter). As soon as there is even 0.5m of head on it the output will drop to maybe 300gal/hr. 2m of head and you are likely down 200gal/hr. Both will depend on installation tubing type, length, etc.

2amp draw sounds about right though.
__________________
captnjack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 August 2011, 20:07   #4
njs
Member
 
njs's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Cornwall
Boat name: Flippa
Make: Prestidge 555 (5.8)
Length: 5m +
Engine: 115 Mariner Opti
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 17
Thanks, so in basic terms she should be ok, I intend to get a bigger pannel later in the year, I dont want to paddle out and find a flat battery but had to do something to shift all the rain water, we get a lot of it down here.
__________________
njs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 August 2011, 20:16   #5
Member
 
Country: Other
Town: Rosas
Boat name: Conqueror
Make: Valiant
Length: 7m +
Engine: Outboard 150hp Merc
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 549
Send a message via Skype™ to Courageous
Jack, I've known centrifugal pumps whack out 200 tons per hour! Admittedly not little fella's made of plastic.........
__________________
Courageous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 August 2011, 20:58   #6
Member
 
jambo's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Girvan & Tayvallich
Boat name: Breawatch
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: Mercury 150 F/stroke
MMSI: ex directory!!
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 6,203
RIBase
Hi I keep my Ron on a swing mooring. I changed back from a rulematic 1100 back not a basic pump and float switch. The former pulses every 5 secs of it feels resistance it pumps till it's dry and on and on! Where as the pump on works when water level actuates the float. I was
Going to the boat after 2weeks an the battery wad flat and the boat full
Since I change mo probs. I also fitted a 10 watt solar panel. Very pleased can go 5 weeks and all dry. Hope this helps.
Cheers
J
__________________
jambo
'Carpe Diem'
Member of the ebay Blue RIB cover club
Member of SABS ( Scottish West Division)
jambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 August 2011, 21:02   #7
RIBnet admin team
 
Poly's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: imposter
Make: FunYak
Length: 3m +
Engine: Tohatsu 30HP
MMSI: 235089819
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,622
Courageous' numbers are a bit optimistic! If any rubbish gets in the pump strainer, or the output hose is not perfect size/kinked etc. In those cases, the pump continues to work at the same power but moves less liquid. Lets say it only actually moves 1/2 what you expect (I don't know how Rule pumps specs compare to reality), but the pumps I buy in my dayjob usually are optimistically named.

If you regularly let your battery discharge by as much as 30 hours at 2 A (ie. 60 Ah) on an 85 Ah battery it won't last long (especially if it is a normal battery rather than a deep cycle). Normal advice is not to discharge by more that 50%. Lets assume that your battery is 85% charged when it starts (after a long trip it might be more than this, but lets play safe). That means you have 35% of its capacity before you reach its limits. That is 30 Ah which at 2A for the pump is 15 hours of pumping.

So that is 3750 gallons. Assuming your boat is kept in Cornwall as per your profile, then the annual average rainfall is about 1m (bear in mind this is average so some years will be worse than others) and the worst months are about 0.12m. For simplicity lets assume your boat is rectangular 5m x 2.3m and so in a year will gather 11.5 m3 of rain. If you add in lets say 1 gal per day of spray or slight leaks coming aboard then you will have an annual total of about 3500 US Gallons of water coming on board!

So that says your battery, should manage about a whole year pumping out your boat. But there are a few other things to think about that will zap the battery:

(1) temperature. the battery works less efficiently at cold temps, but self discharges faster at high temp!
(2) the natural self discharge of the battery which will be about 40+% per annum at UK temps - so about 3-4% per month.
(3) the automatic sensor in your pump draws power even when off (compared to a float switch system which does not). It uses something like 1% of the rated current to check if there is any water to pump. So that is 0.02A which sounds tiny, but that is 0.48 Ah per day.

If you are lucky your solar panel will top up the losses. But you don't say which panel you are using and I expect you will be lucky to get an average of 0.1 Ah from small panels in typical UK sun unless you have an expensive panel and mount it at just the right angle etc. If your boat is only afloat in summer then you are getting over 150 hrs of sunshime a month, so probably about enough to make up for the losses above. But in the depths of winter you are getting 50 hrs a month of sunshine at best - and of course that corresponds to maximum rainfall too.

All together if it was me I wouldn't be leaving it without at least a quick run and checking the battery voltage for more than 4-6 wks during the summer; and probably wouldn't leave it for more than a couple of weeks in winter.
__________________
Poly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 August 2011, 23:14   #8
Member
 
kubcat's Avatar
 
Country: Australia
Town: Sydney
Boat name: Lunasea
Make: Ribtec 890SX
Length: 8m +
Engine: Yamaha ME 421STI x 2
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 475
Jambo, I had the same problem in one of our hardboats, almost sank until we went back to a float switch and solved the problem.

Palwort, that is pretty in depth, I am going to use your methodology to work out the size of the solar panel I need if you don't mind.
__________________
kubcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26 August 2011, 23:21   #9
Member
 
Country: USA
Town: Seattle
Boat name: Water Dog
Make: Polaris
Length: 4m +
Engine: Yamaha 60hp
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Courageous View Post
Jack, I've known centrifugal pumps whack out 200 tons per hour! Admittedly not little fella's made of plastic.........
All bilge pump ratings are for zero head. As soon as they have to pump uphill (i.e. in any kind of real world installation) the output declines. Smooth bore hose helps as well as keeping the hose runs modest.

I would upsize the solar panel before worrying too much about pump size in a RIB. Its not like it can completely sink.
__________________
captnjack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 August 2011, 16:34   #10
njs
Member
 
njs's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Cornwall
Boat name: Flippa
Make: Prestidge 555 (5.8)
Length: 5m +
Engine: 115 Mariner Opti
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 17
Ok, I have ordered a 10w solar panel, and intend to swap over the bilge pump for a "normal" pump. I never leave the boat for more than 2 weeks at a time so for the time being she should be ok. At the end of the season I will trail her to and from so I won't need to keep the bilge on all the time.
Thanks for the help.
__________________
njs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 August 2011, 19:26   #11
Member
 
Country: Other
Town: Rosas
Boat name: Conqueror
Make: Valiant
Length: 7m +
Engine: Outboard 150hp Merc
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 549
Send a message via Skype™ to Courageous
Hehe! Polwart you need to get out more! You put a hell of a lot of work into that and fair dues!

I still think (optimistic or not) that he'll be ok especially as the boat will get SOME use I hope.
__________________
Courageous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 August 2011, 19:32   #12
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: No name yet
Make: Avon
Length: 4m +
Engine: Honda BF30
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 153
As you've only an 85Ah battery, I'd definitely fit a charge controller as 10w is a shade over the 10:1 ratio.

free
__________________
free is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 August 2011, 23:58   #13
Member
 
Country: Other
Town: Stanley, Falkland Is
Boat name: Seawolf
Make: Osprey Vipermax 5.8
Length: 5m +
Engine: Etec 150
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,726
Small solar panels are a waste of time. Some customers at work who run a few Discovery Td5's bought solar panels to leave in the windscreens when they were away to keep the batteries charged. To put that into context a D2 draws about 30ma when it is sitting with the alarm armed. The folks went away for about two months, came back, batteries absolutely flat. A D2 battery will last about a month with no solar panel!

I was always intending to get one to keep the boat topped up but might as well use a hamster in a wheel IMHO...
__________________
A Boat is a hole in the water, surrounded by fibreglass, into which you throw money...

Sent from my Computer, using a keyboard and mouse
BogMonster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 August 2011, 01:17   #14
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Gloucestershire
Boat name: Osprey
Make: Osprey Vipermax
Length: 5m +
Engine: E-tec 300 G2
MMSI: TBC
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,020
The Rule won't draw much when it is not actually pumping water. The 2 second pulse it does every 2 mins draws only a tiny amount.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------
Chris Stevens

Born fiddler
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 August 2011, 03:35   #15
Member
 
Country: Other
Town: Rosas
Boat name: Conqueror
Make: Valiant
Length: 7m +
Engine: Outboard 150hp Merc
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 549
Send a message via Skype™ to Courageous
Can you get a 12 volt hamster?
__________________
Courageous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 August 2011, 06:50   #16
RIBnet admin team
 
Poly's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: imposter
Make: FunYak
Length: 3m +
Engine: Tohatsu 30HP
MMSI: 235089819
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris
The Rule won't draw much when it is not actually pumping water. The 2 second pulse it does every 2 mins draws only a tiny amount.
Except if you work out what it actually uses in 2s repeatedly, it adds up. The experience of others here would seem to support this.
__________________
Poly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 August 2011, 07:34   #17
Member
 
jambo's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Girvan & Tayvallich
Boat name: Breawatch
Make: Ribcraft
Length: 5m +
Engine: Mercury 150 F/stroke
MMSI: ex directory!!
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 6,203
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polwart

Except if you work out what it actually uses in 2s repeatedly, it adds up. The experience of others here would seem to support this.
Spot on Neil they ate a total drain!!
B
__________________
jambo
'Carpe Diem'
Member of the ebay Blue RIB cover club
Member of SABS ( Scottish West Division)
jambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 August 2011, 09:12   #18
Member
 
Pete7's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Gosport
Boat name: April Lass
Make: Moody 31
Length: 9m +
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,951
Quote:
Originally Posted by jambo View Post
Spot on Neil they ate a total drain!!
B
Same here on the yacht. I wired a small 500 auto pump directly to the battery so it couldn't be turned off accidentally. A month later one 110 amp battery completely flat and the bilges are dry so it wasn't pumping anything.

Having fitted a new battery the bilge pump will go back in via the battery master switch as the yacht is dry.

We also have a 45w solar panel fitted. This gives about 10 AH a day for most of the year (Dec and Jan excluded). Max output would be about 15AH but this means tilting the panel and avoiding any shadow which is tricky with a mast and rigging. There is a quick calculation to give an approximate idea of the amp hours a 12v panel will give in ideal conditions. Divide the panel wattage by 3 = the amp hours it will generate. Panels do get hot and this reduces the efficiency. Mount them up on the A frame with a flow of air under them for best results.

Pete
__________________
.
Ribnet is best viewed on a computer of some sort
Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 August 2011, 11:02   #19
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Glasgow
Length: no boat
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 330
What about a wave powered bilge pump used in conjunction with your solar powered pump? I've no idea how good the wave powered pump would be but I like the thought of a belt and braces back-up.
__________________
Siochair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 August 2011, 11:28   #20
Member
 
martini's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Channel Islands
Town: jersey
Boat name: Martini II
Make: Arctic 28/FC470
Length: 8m +
Engine: twin 225Opti/50hp 2t
MMSI: 235067688
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Siochair View Post
What about a wave powered bilge pump used in conjunction with your solar powered pump? I've no idea how good the wave powered pump would be but I like the thought of a belt and braces back-up.
Saw one of those at Seawork this year, genius
__________________
martini is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT. The time now is 01:34.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.