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Old 08 December 2011, 18:08   #41
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Originally Posted by SPR View Post
I always teach , i would better giving my position - a absolute relative position - as Seaskills says bearing and distance of known point.

this is again if somebody is nearby they are more than likely know where they are , rather than gps position. and easier to say!

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S.
I think you have to use a bit of common sense though. I have dealt with the coastguard a number of times and given them the GPS position. They were happy with it and said that they were passing it directly to the chopper. This was largley because we were diving in Brid Bay which is pretty featureless and the about 20 miles offshore on each occasion.

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Old 08 December 2011, 18:16   #42
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yes - if you have used the DSC Alert button to start the call, they would get you GPS if your radio is connect to GPS.

Yes - common sense prevails and I know some don't have DSC radios, best bit of kit out there so good if you know how to use one....

S.
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Old 09 December 2011, 00:44   #43
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I know we gots lots of experts here... but has anyone actually made a mayday or pan pan call?

I have actually called our coust guard for an urgent situation once. 3 lost & overdue divers ended up where they weren't supposed to be. Unfortunately I happened to be alone on another fellow's RIB with no working radio (didn't know that until I needed it). So I used my cell phone. Worked fine and I didn't use mayday or pan pan, we could talk quite clearly about where I was, where I had already looked for them, and all the other particulars. They happened to be sitting on the beach about the time of my call. The local fire boat found them about 35minutes later, they knew where to expect them to wash up.
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Old 09 December 2011, 03:02   #44
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Originally Posted by captnjack View Post
I know we gots lots of experts here... but has anyone actually made a mayday or pan pan call?
I have had 2 incidents (roughly similar location but seperated by a couple of years) where a diver has missed about 15 minutes of decompression (i.e. a rapid uncontrolled ascent)

We raised the Coastguard in the normal manner [coastguard x3 boat name x3]

At the end of the incident the Coastguard told us that a Mayday call would have been better because if they don't pick up the call (this was non DSC) then there is a good chance that another boat would have heard us and passed on the info to the coastguard. They also said that if the call turns out to not really warant a Mayday then THEY will downgrade it accordingly. My take on that was if in doubt, send a Mayday.

I know that in the UK, a lot of folk are fearful of the Coastguard. We had a trip around the Coastguard place at Bridlington and it was a very good experience. Their mindset was that they do want to hear from us. If it is a true incident and you are in doubt about a Mayday then a Mayday is probably the right thing to do.

The MOB you have to use your common sense. A MOB diver in flat water on a sunny day is totally different from a yachty falling off a yacht at night in cold windy conditions.

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Old 09 December 2011, 04:22   #45
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My safety brief is simple. If I'm "not here" then mayday procedure as per the printed instructions. What circumstances does your safety brief suggest that the skipper is no longer in charge of the vessel, and it is not a mayday. (if there are other experienced people on board then they will be able to make the decision but also don't really need a "card").
I can see that if you were no longer on your 3 m funyak when out with friends then a Mayday call would be required.

I teach from the novice up to Yachtmaster so am not always going to have experienced people on board to make the correct call if for what ever reason I am unable to .

We have the cards onboard for this and you can buy them as I said before from most chandleries also some good examoples in skippers cockpit guide .
Als a good book for those doing theory courses.
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Old 09 December 2011, 05:45   #46
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Ok, let's start with where I agree with you. The most important thing is to summon help by any means possible. I'm pretty well with you on that one

Now, where do I have some issues:

1/ Pan Pan unless on fire or sinking. If you have a serious illness or injury, for example - make that a Mayday too, please. If it's me that's seriously ill or hurt, I DEFINITELY want it to be a Mayday!

2/ MMSI is nice to add. Yes, fair point - but you need to consider the people taking your call too. If you've sent a DSC alert (ie you've pressed the red button), what will appear on screen is your MMSI. If you then use your callsign or your boat name to identify yourself and don't include your MMSI, you open the possibility of confusion, Making it clear that there is one distress call and not two increases your chances of success. If your country hasn't caught up with digital technology yet, fair enough. Where it is used, it's best to use it properly

3/MMSI could be confused with Lat and Long. I'd argue that is unlikely - but my stronger argument would be not to use Lat and Long anyway. Position as bearing and distance from something you can see is usually a better option. As you say though, position is more important than MMSI, no question about that

Ian
Right, having now been in touch with several authorities over and above the RYA I can say the following.

The original "proposal" was put forward at the World Radio Communications Conference in 2007 and was ratified by the ITU in 2010. It has taken sometime to filter down through the system but RYA VHF Assessors were advised of the change early 2011.

The wording is as follows. Do please note that there are two basic parts to a Mayday - the Distess call and the Distress message - this has always been the case.


Quote:
32.13C 9A 1) The distress call sent on the frequency 156.8 MHz (VHF channel 16) shall be given in the following form:
– the distress signal MAYDAY, spoken three times;
– the words THIS IS;
– the name of the vessel in distress, spoken three times;
– the call sign or other identification;
– the MMSI (if the initial alert has been sent by DSC). (WRC-07)


32.13D 2) The distress message which follows the distress call should be given in the following form:
– the distress signal MAYDAY;
– the name of the vessel in distress;
– the call sign or other identification;
– the MMSI (if the initial alert has been sent by DSC);
– the position, given as the latitude and longitude, or if the latitude and longitude are not known or if time is insufficient, in relation to a known geographical location;
– the nature of the distress;
– the kind of assistance required;
– any other useful information. (WRC-07)
Also note that the MMSI is only sent when the initial alert has been sent using the DSC function - the Red Button! So if you don't have a DSC set then you can't send it by DSC and therefore no MMSI required - common sense! But even if you have a fixed non DSC radio you should send your call sign.

Position does not have to be in Lat and Long, and I tend to suggest that a position other than lat and long - either bearing from a fixed point or just a simple statement like "I am in Osbourne Bay" is preferable - mainly because somebody close by may not know where you are in relation to where they are by looking at the GPS position

In fact, when I did my Yachtmaster exam - a few years ago now - I was asked by the examiner, a coastguard officer, to make a mock mayday call. I used as my position my location in relation to a point on the shore - he almost went apoplectic with delight and got very excited telling the other candidates on-board that that was how to do it!

I "suggest" to people on my courses that unless of course you are mid channel with no reference point then a location by name is better than a lat and long. If you have sent the alert using DSC and the set is connected to a GPS you lat and long will go anyway and the coast guard can work on that, meanwhile somebody just around "the corner" knows exactly where you are.

At the end of the day it will be commons sense (hopefully) that will come into play. There are two ways to use the card - as in fact there are to use a lamp post, the sober man will use it for illumination, the drunk for support - actually the card is better than a lamp post - it can be used in both ways!

It does not worry me if you use my suggested card or not, but even if it is just a bit of tape with call sign and MMSI number stuck next to the radio, it will at least help. I also suggest that completing a CG 66 is not a bad idea either. MCA - CG66

For those with low esteem of the CG, again this is not the MCA enforcing this, it is an International directive. In terms of having to do it right or not get help is of course nonsense, but surly for the time it takes to have something prepared is better than having nothing when the **** hits the fan! What else have you got to do on dark winter, blowy cold days?
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Old 09 December 2011, 06:07   #47
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Well done Dave clears it up for many .
Re your examiner that would have been Pip I am guessing .
Tim
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Old 09 December 2011, 06:11   #48
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Re your examiner that would have been Pip I am guessing .
Tim
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Old 09 December 2011, 11:19   #49
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Solent Ranger;

Are you saying that your intial post was incorrect and the one 3 above is a correction?

To refresh, the OP read:
Quote:
You are now required to say both your MMSI number and your call sign twice.
The post just up from here says:
Quote:
the MMSI (if the initial alert has been sent by DSC). (WRC-07)
[snip]
Also note that the MMSI is only sent when the initial alert has been sent using the DSC function - the Red Button! So if you don't have a DSC set then you can't send it by DSC and therefore no MMSI required - common sense! But even if you have a fixed non DSC radio you should send your call sign.

The latter implies that you never need to relay the MMSI by voice at all.

Just trying to clarify;

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Old 09 December 2011, 11:24   #50
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to clarify :

1) DSC Sets - if red button is used then on your voice call use the MMSI & Call Sign.

2) non-dsc sets : you don't have an MMSI number to transmit so you can't send it! so it is CALL SIGN only.
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