Yamaha 241 Outdrive problems

Brian Swinbanks · 02 August 2005, 17:25

Our boat is 26ft with a 241 STI Yamaha and a Yamaha outdrive. 3 years old -leg serviced every 100 hours. at 350 hours the gear selection was stiff. I greased the cables - changed the leg oil and at 420 hours the gear change again stuck in forward - boat out removed the gear shift cylinder at the back of the leg to find swarf and metal inside - cylinder and housing scored - lots of metal on the magnet and in the filter. Yamaha say that this is the first time they have heared of this problem but sites on the net tell another story - any help please as the problem must be deep in the outdrive possibly gears or plates?

Andy Gee · 03 August 2005, 08:26

Alan Priddys' yer man but I think he's off line at the mo, have you tried Bill Brown at BBS Marine 01489 580250 as he is very knowelegable about these engines and legs.
I have had a couple of boats fitted with these legs, never had any problems (touching wood).
I change the oil in them every 50-75hours and have never found anything on the magnets or oil strainers, are you using Yamaha oil?
Andy

Brian Swinbanks · 03 August 2005, 14:44

We changed the Yamaha Outdrive oil every 100hrs - as per the manual.
The manual gives a choice of 3 oils - Yamaha + hypoid G4 + hypoid G5
We were using hypoid SAE90 G4. No one told us to use any other oil.
I have now found quite a few other Yamaha Outdrives with similar problems. Both in the UK and in other countries.
Have Yamaha solved the problem in later versions - ours is a 2002 unit.
I have contacted Bill Brown but before our leg goes down I need to know that the problem has been solved and will not return!
Brian

gavin · 03 August 2005, 20:56

Hi sorry to hear about the gear selection problem, why not phone Redbay boats, in Cusshendal, they are the largest europe importer of hydra drives, may know of problem/solutions etc ask for Gary he is a good technical guy, and may be able to offer advice or point you in the right direction, as who to talk to

Andy Gee · 04 August 2005, 09:22

Dunno if the problems been solved, mine are '99 but are fitted to 165hp.
I have heard of the legs when fitted to a 240 "boiling" up the oil if a shower is not fitted and the boat is run for a long time, but I cannot verify this.
What does BBM think the problem is?
Andy

Brian Swinbanks · 08 August 2005, 08:14

Thanks for all your advice I will contact these guys - I have found a web site in N.Z. called 'Diveworks Charters' who has two pages about the problems here is what he says -
'The impending failure of these legs is usually indicated by stiff gear changing which is caused by metal particals from either damaged gears or bearings, becoming trapped in the gear selector valve, if left unchecked some of these particals will shortly find there way into the oil pressure relief valve eventually jamming it open resulting in no oil pressure and any drive'.
Post Mortems and analysis of leg failures.
1. Failure of lower case driveshaft uppermost bearing, Yamaha Part no; 93332-OOOUA
2. Failure of uppercase pinion bearing set
3. Failure of inner/outer propshaft bearing, Yamaha Part no; 93332-OOOUB
The metal fragments from the above parts caused extensive damage to the gear selector valve and jammed the oil pressure relief valve.
4.Failure of lower case driveshaft uppermost bearing, Yamaha Part no; 93332-OOOUA

The metal fragments from the above parts caused some damage to the gear selector valve and jammed the oil pressure relief valve.

I have replaced the main bobbins twice now and have replaced the old damper plate setup with the new solid rubber one.

What I need to know is - have Yamah solved the problem????

Jelly · 08 August 2005, 08:57

Brian
Just seen this thread, I have a 165HP with out drive.
We have found that the oil seal on the bottom drive shaft wears away the SS shaft resulting in water in the oil, which cost us a new bottom leg and a rebuild of the top.
Also a common fault is slopping stearing, until resently there was only one grease seal on the stearing pivot (grease nipple on top pf transom sheild) this eventually lets water up that shaft resuling in a nice little corrosion soup. Firstly you have an aluminium casing that likes to fizz, a SS shaft with no way for the grease to track along it and a mild steel stearing arm. Access to the pinch bolt is a right git, most of the time you have to remove the tramsom shield to access it.
Finally got this re installed and now fighting a power tilt/tim issue - it won't work on the switches but motor runs on test bed - one day might get to enjoy this boat......
Jelly - needing a holiday having just returned from leave!!

Andy Gee · 09 August 2005, 07:45

An interesting site and I see he has a duo prop leg, anyone seen any of these in the UK?
Not so sure that the Yamie is the right engine for a 33' Ali hardboard carrying 12 pas. and 200kg of fish, not really knowing the weight of the boat I would guesstimate around 9000kg, alot of weight for a single and leg.
Any other pages Brian?
The only problem that he has had that I know about is the replacing of the rubber single bushes with a Fenner type on the drive plate.
Andy

Brian Swinbanks · 09 August 2005, 12:22

Yes you could go to
BoatUS.com
Clubhouse Message Boards
Consumer Q & A
BoatUS Club House Messageboards : Consumer Q & A
Topic: Yamaha I/O
Scroll forward on this site to a guy called Hamadi
this is his input by email - Metal debris found in the oil strainer usually indicate bearing damage. I advise you to get copy of the workshop manual for hydradrive (available at yamaha dealers) to help you identify damaged parts.
I replaced intermediate shaft bearings 3 times, my engines ran only 350 hours, about 1/3rd in port durig winter to reduce engine internal corrosion. first failure at 250 hours, drives sent to Yamaha in Dubai (according to Yamaha Japan, their dealer in dubai is one of the most qulified!) after inspection no problem was detected. Second failure occurred at 300hrs and third one at 350 hrs.

Bearings are easy to replace, inexpensive quality SKF bearings show better resistance than the KOYO
Selector valve and housing scratches/scoring is not a major issue and should be dealt by gentle polishing.
Pressure relief valve is likely to be stuck so you should dismantle and thoroughly clean selector valve housing and components.

possible causes for premature bearing wear are
poor oil quality
cooling (drives too high on transom plate, less drag but less cooling)
oversized propeller (check max rpm)
faulty design

hard1 · 09 August 2005, 21:03

Hi Brian, sorry to say it but this is not uncommon with the Yamaha leg.

Jelly · 10 August 2005, 07:18

Brian
Just a thought about when you said you had to replace the shock drive rubbers, mine were shot when we stripped the leg and transom shield off.
After getting it all reinstalled we got the engineer to come down to the boat with the alignment tool - no idea how much this bit of machined steel costs from Yam. Upon arrival he said it looked fine, but couldn't get the tool in, resulted in lowering the engine 3/4" and movingthe engine 3/4" to port and drilling new mount holes tapping them. Thus its worth getting it checked next time.

hard1,
can you elaborate as this is the first I've heard off where there has bit of metal floating round the leg. I had a drive shaft seal where the shaft and let water in and sloppy steering.

Rgds
James

hamadi · 12 September 2005, 09:59

engine/shaft alignement can be checked with a special tool. The rule is that alignment is correct when the drive shaft can be positionned and /or easily removed without force. Each time an alignment problem is evidenced, transom bearing should be checked because of inadequate load.
Regards

hard1 · 12 September 2005, 12:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jelly

Brian
Just a thought about when you said you had to replace the shock drive rubbers, mine were shot when we stripped the leg and transom shield off.
After getting it all reinstalled we got the engineer to come down to the boat with the alignment tool - no idea how much this bit of machined steel costs from Yam. Upon arrival he said it looked fine, but couldn't get the tool in, resulted in lowering the engine 3/4" and movingthe engine 3/4" to port and drilling new mount holes tapping them. Thus its worth getting it checked next time.

hard1,
can you elaborate as this is the first I've heard off where there has bit of metal floating round the leg. I had a drive shaft seal where the shaft and let water in and sloppy steering.

Rgds
James

Sorry Jelly, just spotted your question (reply) to a comment I made a month ago. I have no intimate technical knowledge of Yamaha legs but 2 colleagues of mine have had to rebuild/replace legs rduring the past year as a result of metal debris and bearing damage in regularly serviced (although out of warranty) legs both on Yamaha motor installations. Probably both around 250-300 hours. In one case it was cheaper to source a pre-owned leg for a cost of £4K than repair the orignal. The second was rebuilt for about £2.5K.

Amazing how it's always "the first time this has happened" though.