which 175 or 200 for a vipermax 6.5 - Page 2

Mollers · 29 October 2005, 21:58

Chris you are a lovely guy, but you are missing the point. To say that your boat will be your slowest vehicle you have is crazy! It could be the scariest and the most dangerous. 70mph on the water is the equivalent of 130mph on an unmade road in the dark. You have no sea experience, it's not the Thames out there. I've been using boats on the sea for over 30 years and it scares me. Four people died in our estuary this year in fast boats. It's not about strapping big engines on our boats and going like hell! There is so much more to it. Go steady mate and you'll have the best fun, but leave the boyracer mentality onshore.

Hugh Jardon · 30 October 2005, 07:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mollulnan

Chris you are a lovely guy, but you are missing the point. To say that your boat will be your slowest vehicle you have is crazy! It could be the scariest and the most dangerous. 70mph on the water is the equivalent of 130mph on an unmade road in the dark. You have no sea experience, it's not the Thames out there. I've been using boats on the sea for over 30 years and it scares me. Four people died in our estuary this year in fast boats. It's not about strapping big engines on our boats and going like hell! There is so much more to it. Go steady mate and you'll have the best fun, but leave the boyracer mentality onshore.

thanks for the comments and they are all good points, my response would be as follows...

i agree when the sea is rough then you have to tone it back to suit the conditions and that is when the real fun starts and i am really looking forward to it.

but when the sea is calm and flatish then it is nice to have a turn of speed and to be honest 45 odd mph doesnt cut it for me. (which is what a picton 8.5 with a 225 was giving at 19 galls per hour)

but also it is nice to have some reserve when having fun on the sea and larger hp engine can deliver performance with less strain and hopefully perhaps reduced economy.

i also very much respect the sea and it scares me sometimes and that is the only way to be i think and yes i have a lot to learn, probably always will have!!

if i want high speed thrills i would go for the 1000cc road bike over a boat any day.

to me when the sea is rough is it like going off roading which i love so that will be cool and you have to temper the speed when off roading as well

however i want a boat with enough umph when i need it, i have always been a bit of a power, cc, hp speed freak and i probably wont change.

if i am going to be pouring 19 galls per hour down the back end i would rather be doingit at 60+ in a vipermax than 44+ in a picton cobra (sorry hard but the one we went out in was not quick enough, even my two year old said "faster daddy", it was very calm and a very big boat and rode the sea very very well which probably give the impression of less speed and fuss)

so i will take care and take any advice given on how to drive the boat etc in various conditions but i hear hp calling and will possibly go down the route of an etec 200 i suspect as is the same weight as an opti 150, love the 175 suz, i am going to call brugge marine and get their advice too.

i love optis and if one is at the right pice then i might go opti still but they are older technology now and it might be timly to go for one of the newer engines. Some folks say wait till they have been out for a few years to prove themselves but frankly i am not fussed with that. i am managing to get all the engines at similar prices (within 300£) with the etec 200 coming out most expensive at a 1k more so i am trying to balance price with hp with technology

went out for a blast yesterday as it was a f3-6 for a bit of fun, we took it easy as had ethan in the boat and he loved it. i wont lay the boat up for the winter as if it is not tooo cold then will be out there for a blast, yesterday was grate, just had shorts on which is amazing for the end of october

take care mate

Seaharrier · 30 October 2005, 07:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Jardon

i must admit that the etec 200 is looking more and more favorable, the speed angle does not worry me as this will be my slowest vehicle so i think the 200 will give me the reserve i am looking for

that is a fab picture, how come it has a 225 as they are only rated to 200 normally?

the owner claims it going at 63kn on flat water!

Hugh Jardon · 31 October 2005, 12:34

63 knts is going some, would love to know how stable it is at those speeds! do you have his details or email so i could message with him.....cheers

eupa · 31 October 2005, 14:29

try a yam 250 HPDI . Find this a remarkable engine in all respects although I was sceptical at first. Waht asort of price are you being quoted for an etec 250?

Jonathan

Hugh Jardon · 31 October 2005, 16:22

it is only rated upto 200hp so cant really stretch to 250, etec 200 for 7600 pls vat

Flavio · 31 October 2005, 18:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Jardon

it is only rated upto 200hp so cant really stretch to 250, etec 200 for 7600 pls vat

An E-Tec 225HO is 247hp (see the yellow Vipermax 6.5 above) so shouldn't 250hp be fine a well?

Hugh Jardon · 31 October 2005, 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flavio

An E-Tec 225HO is 247hp (see the yellow Vipermax 6.5 above) so shouldn't 250hp be fine a well?

the vipermax 6.5 is ce plated to take upto 200 hp, i will ask mike and Kris about going over 200hp. might be if i have extra knees put in it can go higher in hp, will ask mike

Petrov · 01 November 2005, 06:55

Quote:

the vipermax 6.5 is ce plated to take upto 200 hp, i will ask mike and Kris about going over 200hp. might be if i have extra knees put in it can go higher in hp, will ask mike

No problem to have 225 or 250 if you thinking about weight, extra knees will solve the problem but there is a risk that boat will be unstable depending on what equipment you will have and how they are placed in boat.
We have a old Osprey Seaharrier from 1990 that is 6,4m long and 2m wide and it has a 250 VMAX HPDI, boat is doing 73 knots and is a little bit dangerous

More info on that boat here

Hugh Jardon · 01 November 2005, 07:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petrov

No problem to have 225 or 250 if you thinking about weight, extra knees will solve the problem but there is a risk that boat will be unstable depending on what equipment you will have and how they are placed in boat.
We have a old Osprey Seaharrier from 1990 that is 6,4m long and 2m wide and it has a 250 VMAX HPDI, boat is doing 73 knots and is a little bit dangerous

More info on that boat here

ideally i want the boat to be nice and stable at speed and i am very happy to stick to 200 max, Mike warned me that the guys over in sweden and denmark are crazy guys

and it is amazing what they do with their boats

.

if i go for an etec on that boat any idea what sort of speed it will return? i am suspecting around the 55knts mark, i am looking at the new engines coming out that are very light.
thanks

Petrov · 01 November 2005, 09:19

Quote:

ideally i want the boat to be nice and stable at speed and i am very happy to stick to 200 max, Mike warned me that the guys over in sweden and denmark are crazy guys and it is amazing what they do with their boats .

Ha ha, maybe little crazy but we are using the boats different from you.
In Stockholm for example we have 30,000 islands and not so much sea in the archipelago, during the summers we are using the boat as a car, quick transports from different places, the average Osprey in Stockholm are doing around 47-48 knots but there are a lot of faster boats than that, the fastet private use boat in Stockholm is doing 127 knots.
Its a Nortech 50 (Similiar to attached pic) it has like 4 X 950hp.
Thats crazy

Hugh Jardon · 01 November 2005, 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petrov

Ha ha, maybe little crazy but we are using the boats different from you.
In Stockholm for example we have 30,000 islands and not so much sea in the archipelago, during the summers we are using the boat as a car, quick transports from different places, the average Osprey in Stockholm are doing around 47-48 knots but there are a lot of faster boats than that, the fastet private use boat in Stockholm is doing 127 knots.
Its a Nortech 50 (Similiar to attached pic) it has like 4 X 950hp.
Thats crazy

not sure what to say here, that is amazing and 4x950hp, well that must be one hell of a boat. I have been looking thru all the boats in your area and on the disk you sent me, they do look great and you guys sure know how to have a good time.

i will be happy with a tame vipermax 6.5, with a nice 200 on the back, which would you recommend?, opti or etec or fourstroke suz 175?

Petrov · 01 November 2005, 09:35

I would go for the 200 VMAX HPDI, nice looking engine, ok fueleconomy (not compare to 4-stroke) nice sound, good effect.

The Jackeens · 01 November 2005, 16:52

We have never regretted going for slightly more power than needed.

Speedwise (E tec 200 + VM 6.5 you are probably looking at 50+ knots (we are guestimating

) Perhaps nearer 53?

Variables include crew, rigging, prop, engine height, load, sea conditions, guts, hull state, etc. etc.

Have a chat with Lee at the boatshow as already recommended.

Us

Hugh Jardon · 01 November 2005, 18:10

the vmax comes in at a higher premium than i am prepared to pay, currently i am looking at opti 175/200, suz BF175 or etec 175/200

i know yams are nice i have one currently 15hp and had a 2hp in the past haha so can vouch for nice engines, oh and have an evinrude as well....4hp ha ha ....boy seems i have had some biguns!!!

optis are cheapest with bf and etec 175 in the middle and etec 200 most expensive with 1400 quid separating the opti 200 from etec 200

trouble is some engines are not out til next year so can test em till then and i want to get an order in soonish or by the boat show at the latest

Hugh Jardon · 30 November 2005, 21:15

hmmmm

now i have my hull and getting ready to fit out the bits and pieces i need to make a decision on the engine. I have read a lot of subjective views and some objective views on the etec vs opti war, and in many reports in the usa the opti comes out slightly better although they are close, economy seems better with the opti. It seems that because mercury are pushing verado it is nice for etec to challenge verado, but as typically verado loses to the optimax on ecomony and speed stakes it is easy for etec to beat verado. so i suspect the etec and optimax are very closely matched.

some folks say the opti is old technology and etec is the way to go but have not seen any real evidence that the etec is better. i can get a 2005 opti 200 for around 800 less than a 200 etec (new 190kg model) and 500 quid cheaper than a suz 175.

i am interested in quiet but a nice healthy noise
interested in economy
interested in high cruising speed at reasonable economy
reliability

has anyone got any data they can throw in here for me to consider in my decision

my view is so far

probably cant go wrong with an opti proven technology
suz 175 will prob be quiet and relatively economical and reliable
opti will be cheaper
suz will be underpowered compared to 200 2 strokes but will i need that extra?
etec is quiet and should be reliable and economical but not proven
servicing will be cheaper on etec and winterising is good
which will have better appeal or resale....god only knows

i can afford all three but prefer to spend less

i like all three and want to test all three but cant as two arnt made yet

opti avail now
suz in feb march
etec in feb ish

any input anyone? am i missing something

i like black, blue ok, not so keen on silver mariner

hard1 · 30 November 2005, 22:12

Opti. You'll just love the smell of 'em anyway. Then you'll be hooked.

hard1 · 30 November 2005, 22:41

Hugh Jardon · 30 November 2005, 23:15

nice one, do they smell like the old two stroke bikes running on castrol R?

hard1 · 01 December 2005, 00:19

Whoa there! Castrol R? Now THAT smells better than, er, sorry don't want a yellow one so I'll stay schtuum but 'R' smells like - RACIN'! Yeah....

Opti's have a kind of delicate perfumed eastern odour. Sort of vanilla meets musky Shanghai bordello. It's both memorable and unique.

Bugger, gonna fire mine up now and have a sniff.

I'm gone...