Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 23 January 2008, 17:20   #1
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Essex/Vendee
Boat name: shockwave,Voluntry 2
Make: Pac 22/ searider5.4
Length: 6m +
Engine: 180hp turbo,yam 90
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,015
Whats the largest auxilary i can consider

I am fitting out my Pacific and fully intend to do many long cruises and have an auxilary of a reasonable /large size 2 stroke even as big as 25hp but am unsure in reality if this would work out well.Any comments wellcome
__________________

__________________
PeterR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 January 2008, 17:42   #2
Member
 
Pete7's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Gosport
Boat name: April Lass
Make: Moody 31
Length: 9m +
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,850
Pete, I think the trips Chris Kaye made in the early 90s would probably serve as a good example. His rib Sabredrive was wide beamed Delta 6.5m rib fitted with a mid engine Perkins 160 hp and an experimental surface drive, so a similar sized rib to a Pacific 22. On one of his attempts to reach Iceland he broke down. They made it safely back involving a return trip of 90 miles (or possibly 90 hours memory fading) on a Yanmar Diesel outboard at displacement speeds, so its certainly possible. He was successful on his third attempt btw.

I think your going to need a long shaft to get the prop down deep otherwise it will break the surface as waves roll uner the hull.

Pete
__________________

__________________
.
Ribnet is best viewed on a computer of some sort
Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 January 2008, 18:18   #3
RIBnet admin team
 
Poly's Avatar
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: imposter
Make: FunYak
Length: 3m +
Engine: 2 stroke YAM 20 HP
MMSI: 235089819
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 10,114
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterR View Post
Any comments wellcome
good cause I ain't no expert!

I think the challenge with too big an outboard is it still won't get you on the plane (unless you go silly!) but the prop/gearbox on most 25 HP engines will have been designed for most small lightweight boats at planing speeds.

If you are still only managing 7 or 8 knots at full throttle then the prop must be slipping like mad (or the engine won't have enough torque to get up to full speed). Not sure if you can get the gearbox and prop combo you need to get full power delivered effectively.

The diesel outboard pete refers to presumably has gearbox and or prop which enables most of the power to be delivered, and higher torque?

What extra would you gain with a 25 HP engine over a 9.9/15/20 in this application?
__________________
Poly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23 January 2008, 18:42   #4
RIBnet admin team
 
Nos4r2's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: The wilds of Wiltshire
Boat name: WhiteNoise/Dominator
Make: Ballistic 7.8/SR5.4
Length: 7m +
Engine: Opti 225/Yam 85
MMSI: 235090687/235055163
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,645
RIBase
Personally I'd get the biggest sail drive outboard I could. Does anyone know if the Yamaha 9.9 that was easily converted to 15hp was available with a saildrive prop?
__________________
Need spares,consoles,consumables,hire,training or even a new boat?

Please click HERE and HERE and support our Trade Members.

Join up as a Trade member or Supporter HERE
Nos4r2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24 January 2008, 04:58   #5
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: Wildheart
Make: Humber/Delta Seasafe
Length: 5m +
Engine: Merc 60 Clamshell
MMSI: 235068449
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,610
For the 25s Suzuki go down to 9" pitch and Tohatsu can sell you an 8" for their 25s.

That's just the info I have to hand. Maybe Merc / Yam go lower?
__________________
9D280 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24 January 2008, 05:40   #6
RIBnet admin team
 
Nos4r2's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: The wilds of Wiltshire
Boat name: WhiteNoise/Dominator
Make: Ballistic 7.8/SR5.4
Length: 7m +
Engine: Opti 225/Yam 85
MMSI: 235090687/235055163
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,645
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9D280 View Post
For the 25s Suzuki go down to 9" pitch and Tohatsu can sell you an 8" for their 25s.

That's just the info I have to hand. Maybe Merc / Yam go lower?
I think this is one that might need some trials to find out-but a 25hp isn't going to get a pac22 planing so you're looking at displacement speeds.

I reckon a 15hp with a sail drive prop would do the job. It'll still do the same speed but it'll use less fuel.
__________________
Need spares,consoles,consumables,hire,training or even a new boat?

Please click HERE and HERE and support our Trade Members.

Join up as a Trade member or Supporter HERE
Nos4r2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24 January 2008, 06:24   #7
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Boat name: Wildheart
Make: Humber/Delta Seasafe
Length: 5m +
Engine: Merc 60 Clamshell
MMSI: 235068449
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,610
True, but realistically how many Aux's will get their boats planing? At a rough guess - none! The only way that's going to happen is a pair of big low pitch prop'ed O/bs (on separate tanks filled from different pumps etc etc). If youpre doing that, the low pitch you;d need to plane on one will eat fuel in "normal" cruise, and will of course be slower, not what you want for the rest of the time.

If you're running a 25 over a 9.9 you will have a bit more grunt to get you through a big headwind / waves. You don't need to run it flat out all the time!

The Aux is there to get you out of trouble.
__________________
9D280 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24 January 2008, 06:46   #8
RIBnet admin team
 
Nos4r2's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: The wilds of Wiltshire
Boat name: WhiteNoise/Dominator
Make: Ballistic 7.8/SR5.4
Length: 7m +
Engine: Opti 225/Yam 85
MMSI: 235090687/235055163
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 12,645
RIBase
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9D280 View Post
True, but realistically how many Aux's will get their boats planing? At a rough guess - none! The only way that's going to happen is a pair of big low pitch prop'ed O/bs (on separate tanks filled from different pumps etc etc). If youpre doing that, the low pitch you;d need to plane on one will eat fuel in "normal" cruise, and will of course be slower, not what you want for the rest of the time.
Agreed!
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9D280 View Post
If you're running a 25 over a 9.9 you will have a bit more grunt to get you through a big headwind / waves. You don't need to run it flat out all the time!
In theory you're right, but in practice it won't work like that.
Running some figures through a prop calc (link):-

With a 9" pitch prop
1.85 or 2:1 gearbox ratio
5000 rpm (which is low)

theoretical top speed from a 25hp engine of 21 or 23 mph.

Dial in the hull speed (or a realistic speed you could push to past the hull speed)-I dialled in 8mph- you're going to get 62% slip. Your 25hp is never actually going to get to the right number of revs to develop 25hp unless it's cavitating-and it'll still use more fuel than a 15hp.


For example, to make a genuine 8mph at 20% slip using 2:1 gearbox ratio and a 9"pitch prop your engine is going to be doing 2347rpm. At that speed it's unlikely to be developing 15hp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9D280 View Post
The Aux is there to get you out of trouble.
Yep, agreed. It doesn't make sense to put something on there that's heavier,juicier and no faster though.
__________________
Need spares,consoles,consumables,hire,training or even a new boat?

Please click HERE and HERE and support our Trade Members.

Join up as a Trade member or Supporter HERE
Nos4r2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24 January 2008, 07:05   #9
RIBnet supporter
 
bedajim's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Cambs/Northants
Length: no boat
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nos4r2 View Post
Agreed!
In theory you're right, but in practice it won't work like that.
Running some figures through a prop calc (link):-

With a 9" pitch prop
1.85 or 2:1 gearbox ratio
5000 rpm (which is low)

theoretical top speed from a 25hp engine of 21 or 23 mph.

Dial in the hull speed (or a realistic speed you could push to past the hull speed)-I dialled in 8mph- you're going to get 62% slip. Your 25hp is never actually going to get to the right number of revs to develop 25hp unless it's cavitating-and it'll still use more fuel than a 15hp.


For example, to make a genuine 8mph at 20% slip using 2:1 gearbox ratio and a 9"pitch prop your engine is going to be doing 2347rpm. At that speed it's unlikely to be developing 15hp.


Yep, agreed. It doesn't make sense to put something on there that's heavier,juicier and no faster though.
I get 8 knts from my 15 2st(prop as fitted new), bit of air in a big swell but I may make a new bracket over the winter

The 8 knts happens from about 3/4 revs +, with the main down as a rudder but it would get you home
__________________
bedajim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24 January 2008, 07:50   #10
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: Aberdeenshire
Boat name: Kikican
Make: Vipermax 7
Length: 7m +
Engine: F250 / FT9.9 Aux
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 250
Does this not make something like the Yam FT9.9 high thrust ideal for the job. Only 10 HP but you will be pretty much guaranteed to get the whole 10 HP.

Bedajim - what weight is your 15HP suzi?

Richard
__________________

__________________
Richard Selman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 15:16.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.