Vipermax engine options

BogMonster · 20 March 2010, 11:47

New boat time

The Vipermax is looking like my favourite option at the moment after a brief look at a Finnmaster with a roof and deciding that even second hand it was really just too expensive

So ... engines. It will be a 5.8m Vipermax hull. The initial option offered by Roy Bishop is a 130hp Etec. I have seen boats on Ribnet with Suz DF140, Etec 150 and I think an Optimax 115 I saw when I was searching around.

Various people have said 115hp is 'a bit disappointing' on a Vmax, what are people's thoughts on the Etec 130 option?

Inevitably the amount of money and the list of toys will not match, so I am going to be in the position where I can't afford to tick all the boxes I want, but at the same time I obviously don't want to feel I wish I had spent the extra and some things can be added later if need be but the engine choice is pretty fundamental.

Anybody with a Vipermax - could you post up your hull size, engine size and WOT flat water speed if you know it, not that top speed is all that important but from that I can reasonably work out what the overall feel is going to be like, and of course there is the odd need to burn off a jet ski from time to time

The other thing I am interested in finding out - and I can't find out from the brochures - is what the engine instrumentation is like. The instruments on my old Johnson were pretty basic - rev counter, hour meter and a squawk alarm for low oil, high temp etc. I'd like to get something that lets me keep a closer eye on the engine - fuel consumption and engine temperature being the main two I guess. I have no idea what the various engine manufacturers supply as standard and I am dimly aware that there are different options on Mercury etc, but what do Suzuki and Etec have in the way of standard instrumentation / what does it show?

Thanks

Hightower · 20 March 2010, 13:39

My 6.2m Hull is made from the same mould as the 5.8m. I have a 150 Evinrude DI on the back (forerunner of the ETEC) and was a little disappointed by my performance. I hoped for and expected 44 knots but only managed 37 knots WOT. This is because obviously the Vipermax has a very deep V and as such has pretty excellent handling in rough weather.

Another reason for a lower performance is because it runs with the rear of the tubes slightly in the water. This will cause a bit of drag and as such will run slower.

Don't get me wrong, I'm chuffed to bits with everything she does and rough weather speed is pretty good too

It's just that I wished I'd have put a 200 on the back for a little more economy and a little more speed in the calm stuff.

I would recommend a 150hp something for your 5.8, keep the motor as light as possible and go for an XL leg option which will keep the transom height higher. I guess what make you go for, well that'll depend on who's on the Island to do the servicing. But Opti or Etec would be my favs due to then being lighter.

One other thing I wished I got was some transom legs put in, you have to spec these yourself as they are not fitted and not really needed for standard outboard fitments, it's just in case you want to upgrade the motor at some point.

BogMonster · 20 March 2010, 14:22

Interesting - that would suggest a 5.8/130 would possibly be less, and that would be disappointing - my old Humber would just crack 40kt if I chucked the fuel cans out (60kg less in the bow) and I suppose I wouldn't want any less than that and I was kind of expecting mid 40s from 150hp.

Anybody with 150 on a 5.8 that could comment?

Servicing is going to be all DIY as there are no agents for anything - so that's probably a tick for an Etec with 3 year/300 hour service intervals but there isn't any reason for choosing based on dealer support.

Razorbill RIBs · 20 March 2010, 18:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogMonster

Anybody with 150 on a 5.8 that could comment?

DownhillDai is your man Stephen....

I'm sure he'll be along later, or perhaps drop him a PM....I'm sure he can help you out with performance queries and Opti /smartcraft etc.

Dan

EDIT....he may well be out celebrating after that somewhat better performance we just gave against Italy!

Downhilldai · 20 March 2010, 21:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hightower

This is because obviously the Vipermax has a very deep V...

Compared with what? The Vipermax has a warped vee hull.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hightower

It's just that I wished I'd have put a 200 on the back

But your 6.2 Vipermax is rated to 150hp max...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hightower

I would recommend a 150hp something for your 5.8

Me too

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hightower

keep the motor as light as possible

At 150hp, there isn't much in it. The Yams and Soozooks are around 10% heavier than the Optis and e-tecs. I wouldn't let this factor influence you, if you have a preference for a 4-stroke.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hightower

..go for an XL leg option which will keep the transom height higher.

But the downside is a higher centre of gravity with an XL, compared with a longshaft.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hightower

One other thing I wished I got was some transom legs put in, you have to spec these yourself as they are not fitted and not really needed for standard outboard fitments, it's just in case you want to upgrade the motor at some point.

I wouldn't bother. If you stay within the manufacturer's stated max hp, the boat will perform fine and the transom won't fall apart.

Chris · 20 March 2010, 22:22

Maximus has a 130 on his 545 Ribcraft and sees around 45 knots, not sure how the hulls compare from a performance basis however I would be very suprised if you did not see 40knots plus out of a 130 on a 5.8.

However the 150 would be a nice match for the 5.8 if your budget will stretch. Also you would probably find that you are not spanking it so hard to get the same performance so good for the engine in the long term.

Prop choice will be important for you on whichever option you settle on I would say 18 or 19" on the 130 and 20 or 21" on the 150..

Are you planning on getting the boat rigged in the UK by Osprey?

Chris · 20 March 2010, 22:29

As for what comes with the engine....

With regards to instrumentation you will get 2 icommand digital guages that you can set up as you require to show a variety of info in difference formats

You will also get a fuel sender analogue to digital converter and a Lowrance GPS aerial.

All these items then form part of your NMEA2000 network which runs through the boat from the engine into the console.

BogMonster · 21 March 2010, 00:28

Chris - Yes it will be rigged by Osprey and ready to go, aiming to have whatever I buy here for end September/Octoberish to coincide with the time of year at which it is alleged that something called "summer" is on the way, though I seem to have missed it this year...

I also noticed that the weights are quite similar at the 150hp mark - not sure how prices compare but I think I will look at perhaps the Etec 130/150, Suz DF140 and DF150 as possible options.

From what I read the Etecs lose out a bit to four strokes in mid range cruising fuel economy, which is a bit of a pain as that is where I burn most fuel. On the other hand what better excuse to cane it flat out all the time

DHD says 44kt from his which would do me just fine

Downhilldai · 21 March 2010, 02:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogMonster

I think I will look at perhaps the Etec 130/150, Suz DF140 and DF150 as possible options.

Before you decide, take a look at this thread:

http://rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=26149

Trolli · 21 March 2010, 08:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogMonster

Anybody with 150 on a 5.8 that could comment?

Not a Humber or Vmax but 5.85.
My Ribcraft with 150 Yamaha on the back: 43kn. (2 Pers. /100L Gas)

Petrov · 21 March 2010, 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hightower

My 6.2m Hull is made from the same mould as the 5.8m. I have a 150 Evinrude DI on the back (forerunner of the ETEC) and was a little disappointed by my performance. I hoped for and expected 44 knots but only managed 37 knots WOT. This is because obviously the Vipermax has a very deep V and as such has pretty excellent handling in rough weather.

Another reason for a lower performance is because it runs with the rear of the tubes slightly in the water. This will cause a bit of drag and as such will run slower.

Don't get me wrong, I'm chuffed to bits with everything she does and rough weather speed is pretty good too

It's just that I wished I'd have put a 200 on the back for a little more economy and a little more speed in the calm stuff.

I would recommend a 150hp something for your 5.8, keep the motor as light as possible and go for an XL leg option which will keep the transom height higher. I guess what make you go for, well that'll depend on who's on the Island to do the servicing. But Opti or Etec would be my favs due to then being lighter.

One other thing I wished I got was some transom legs put in, you have to spec these yourself as they are not fitted and not really needed for standard outboard fitments, it's just in case you want to upgrade the motor at some point.

Wrong installed or wrong prop, a Viper max 6,5m which is a wider hull and longer makes 44knots with a 150. I installed a 150 carburated engine on a 5,8m and had a topspeed of 50knots.

BogMonster · 21 March 2010, 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

Before you decide, take a look at this thread:

http://rib.net/forum/showthread.php?t=26149

Cheers, yeah I remembered that one from a while back and had a discussion with Campbell about his performance issues.

I'm also aware from past reading on here that some say the DF140 can be only about 125 but I guess the fact is that smaller engine = less torque pretty much whichever way you cut it, so a smaller engine is always likely to have less razz factor when you firewall the throttle, not to mention higher stresses if you are caning it.

Then again a smaller engine is going to use less fuel toddling along at 20-25kt so I suppose you pays yer money....

Downhilldai · 21 March 2010, 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petrov

Wrong installed or wrong prop, a Viper max 6,5m which is a wider hull and longer makes 44knots with a 150. I installed a 150 carburated engine on a 5,8m and had a topspeed of 50knots.

Some of the 'old skool' carbed motors were putting out more than their stated hp. Perhaps that was the case here?

Hightower · 21 March 2010, 13:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petrov

Wrong installed or wrong prop, a Viper max 6,5m which is a wider hull and longer makes 44knots with a 150. I installed a 150 carburated engine on a 5,8m and had a topspeed of 50knots.

Well I expected more too. However I'm really pleased with my package, there is just a little bit of a wish list I have.

When comparing the 6.2 with a 6.5 Vipermax you have to remember the amount of drag the rear of the tubes are having being in the water on the 6.2, I would guess that with would have an effect on the top speed. How much, I don't know!

Hightower · 21 March 2010, 13:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

Compared with what? The Vipermax has a warped vee hull.

I'm not comparing anything! I'm saying that it takes quite a bit more engine HP to get a Vipermax going.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

But your 6.2 Vipermax is rated to 150hp max... .

I have no rating plate on my hull. However when I asked a question about uprating the outboard at a later stage, I was told it would accept a 200hp unit and that they knew of a 5.8m with a 225 honda on the back. Only repeating what I was told. However if I was thinking of uprating I would definately call Roy for comformation first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Downhilldai

But the downside is a higher centre of gravity with an XL, compared with a longshaft. .

Don't know about the 5.8, but doesn't seem to affect my handling at all.

Mollers · 21 March 2010, 13:27

The 6.2 is rated @ 150 according to the Osprey website.

Hightower · 21 March 2010, 13:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mollers

The 6.2 is rated @ 150 according to the Osprey website.

But as I stated, they seemed to be happy to put a larger outboard on for me when I ordered mine several years ago. Perhaps Roy will be along later to correct me?

Mollers · 21 March 2010, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hightower

But as I stated, they seemed to be happy to put a larger outboard on for me when I ordered mine several years ago. Perhaps Roy will be along later to correct me?

I don't know how useful a 'Roy said' would be in court should an insurance co. be looking for a wriggle-out loophole. Personally, I prefer it in black and white and stamped on a plate fixed to my transom.

Hightower · 21 March 2010, 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mollers

I don't know how useful a 'Roy said' would be in court should an insurance co. be looking for a wriggle-out loophole. Personally, I prefer it in black and white and stamped on a plate fixed to my transom.

But they don't do Transom mounted "CE rated" plates, do they? All I have on mine is a serial number.

Mollers · 21 March 2010, 13:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hightower

But they don't do Transom mounted "CE rated" plates, do they?

They sure do. Would you like a pic of it?