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Old 02 February 2012, 10:36   #21
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My reading of the law is that new two strokes are not allowed to be sold in the eu. Their import is not banned. It is legal to sell them in the Channel Islands and for them then to go into the uk.
As for comments regarding other threads and the reliability of buying from the Channel Islands can we please not all be tarred with the same brush!
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Old 02 February 2012, 14:31   #22
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Originally Posted by C-NUMB View Post
Have studied this on a few occasions on a general level.
.........
How much its worth worrying about is another story and again pends on various issues....
Here something that can be used as a source if anyone is interested, directive 2003/44/EC, Beginning of page 9
http://www.nmma.org/assets/cabinets/...ive2003-44.pdf

Custom over here takes it by the letter, think its only good if the approach somewhere else is more pragmatic.

Personally I think this whole directive is a piece of crap and should newer has been released as is . But not much to do about it now.
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Old 02 February 2012, 15:37   #23
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My reading of the law is that new two strokes are not allowed to be sold in the eu. Their import is not banned.
I'm not sure how you arrive at that conclusion. I'd certainly be seeking professional advice before advising others authoritatively that this is the case. If a customer in the UK were ever to get his engine confiscated (one of the sanctions that is available) he might have a reasonable grievance against a supplier who insisted it would be fine.

The UK Recreational Craft Regulations 2004 which I linked to earlier are absolutely clear that placing on the market for the first time includes placing into service for the first time. I accept there may be some debate who is breaking the rules but I don't think there is any doubt that someone is! I'd suggest you need to be very careful because if UK trading standards were to take an interest, they may interpret your "offer of supply"/"quote"/"marketing" as placing the product on the UK market, and I suspect they would be much more interested in a retailer selling multiple engines to the UK than the individuals buying them.

As I said earlier the evidence to date appears to be that people are unlikely to run into trouble, and you might even view a cooperative dealer in the CI's as providing a "helpful" service to boaters in need of lightweight 2 strokes, but its a little bit naughty to suggest everything is 100% above board.

A little common sense will tell you that the RCD (and other EU product directives) which are primarily designed to enable Intra-EU sales would not be constructed in such a manner as to ban the sale of product within the EU but permit it to be imported from countries outside the EU. Indeed if this were really the case then I think you would have found at least one manufacturer intentionally promoting sales from the CI's, direct from the US, Japan etc...

Quote:
As for comments regarding other threads and the reliability of buying from the Channel Islands can we please not all be tarred with the same brush!
I'm not tarring you with the same brush, but the other thread highlights that purchasing from the CI's is just the same as purchasing from any other foreign country (especially those outside the EU) in that enforcing contracts (and rights customers might assume they have in the UK) is not easy. I guess you can't have everything!
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Old 03 February 2012, 00:21   #24
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As there may be a Harry Hill fight coming on I've decided to go back to basics.

I think I'll just take the simple view that 2 stroke outboards are not legally sold by UK mainland dealers in this country for reasons I fully understand (and agree with). Whether they can be imported by some means legal or not is irrelevant: such an import would still be against the spirit of the law.

Now, where did I put that 4 stroke catalogue?
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Old 03 February 2012, 04:45   #25
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Looking at the popularity of the Tohatsu 9.8 2-stroke over the years I think there's a big gap in the market for a lightweight (under 30kg) 4 stroke outboard.
I'm sure it's the high power that people want and not the fact that it's a 2-stroke, in fact a 4-stroke would be better.
It needs to be twin cylinder really to make it smoother.
This must be possible.
I wonder why nobody had produced one?

There is the Selva "Pirhana" 9.9 4-stroke which weighs about 27kg, but it's not highly thought of, as I found out, and being single cylinder seems to vibrate a lot, and is fairly noisy (from looking at YouTube video of one in action)
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Old 03 February 2012, 10:26   #26
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Looking at the popularity of the Tohatsu 9.8 2-stroke over the years I think there's a big gap in the market for a lightweight (under 30kg) 4 stroke outboard.
I'm sure it's the high power that people want and not the fact that it's a 2-stroke, in fact a 4-stroke would be better.
It needs to be twin cylinder really to make it smoother.
This must be possible.
I wonder why nobody had produced one?
For Suzuki - to choose them at random as an example, "under 30kg" would represent a 25% weight saving (10kg in 40kg): a big ask. As such, I think it boils down to simple economics. The current crop of 10hp outboards are made to a price: that'll be a significant driver at that end of the market...it's not cheap enough, it doesn't sell well enough.

Making extra effort in terms of R&D to produce a lighter weight 4 stroke that potentially involves having to add in more exotic design/materials/tooling may simply not allow the maths to add up. It's why most new lightweight technologies in cars usually start life at the expensive end of the market.
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Old 03 February 2012, 14:54   #27
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Making extra effort in terms of R&D to produce a lighter weight 4 stroke that potentially involves having to add in more exotic design/materials/tooling may simply not allow the maths to add up. It's why most new lightweight technologies in cars usually start life at the expensive end of the market.


Shame though. Tohatsu have got emission complaint 2 smokes but only the larger units and nothing for us boat in the boot boys.

I wonder if I bought a new fuel tank for 1,500 could I get a free 2 stroke engine thrown in?
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Old 03 February 2012, 14:56   #28
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Originally Posted by SIBer
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I wonder if I bought a new fuel tank for 1,500 could I get a free 2 stroke engine thrown in?
Money laundering ?

Peter @ Boatsandoutboards4sale ~ askboatsandoutboards4sale@sky.com ~ 07930 421007
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Old 03 February 2012, 15:30   #29
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If the supplier openly advertises these engines on their website as available for supply to the UK, as they do, surely it must be legal.
Otherwise would they not get into trouble fairly quickly?
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Old 04 February 2012, 04:47   #30
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If the supplier openly advertises these engines on their website as available for supply to the UK, as they do, surely it must be legal.
Otherwise would they not get into trouble fairly quickly?
If they do exactly what you described then they are definitely placing the product on the market and breaking UK and eu law. Nobody is likely to take enforcement action from the UK because that is trading standards job and they don't understand / are too busy dealing with dodgy local to chase foreigners.

On the why no light 4 strokes question I think you need to bear in mind that one of the advantages of 2 stroke for the boat in the boot and yacht tender markets is that 2 strokes aren't sensitive to which way you lie them down etc. Simply being light might not be enough.
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