The "auxilliary or not?" argument

[beamishken]

If its rough out and you break down then an aux may take longer than you'd like to get back and you'd probably be justified in calling the cavalry, however it may just keep you off the rocks or maintain a heading untill the cavalry arrive. But on a nice sunny calm day if your only a couple of miles from home you'll be far happier pottering back with your aux than calling for help.
Personally id find it more embarrassing calling for help on a fine sunny day than I would if it were blowing a hoolie
I wonder if an aux might have saved the redbay that was wrecked off Mull last week?
Its not a written rule that breakdowns occur when its rough
I have moved my 7.4m delta with a 5hp yam but now have an 8hp yam

[mhb100]

I have a ballistic 7m with a 15hp 2 stroke so about the weight of a 10hp 4 stroke. I've been through several brackets and also now have a strap over the A frame. Tried it out when broke down last summer and I'm not sure I'd want less power but I guess it depends on how far you travel. Being 2 cylinders also reassuring. Many seem to have 8hp single. But in a swell and offshore It would be a real slog. Does your engine have a limp home mode? Can you cruise in company? I'm not convinced an aux is the way to go really.

[Lee argyle]

Didn’t we have this exact conversation a few weeks ago Lol

[Last Tango]

Hey my doubts about the value of "limp home mode"


Gearbox fault....not "limping" anywhere
Fuel issue, it's probably not going to "limp" for very long
Overheating...no water flow.....it's not going to "limp" for very long.
Major electrical failure.....probably not going to "limp" at all.
Timing belt..not going to "limp"...... or ever run again
Steering failure....going to "limp" round in circles
No blades left on your prop..."limp mode" ain't going to help

In essence the only time it's going to keep "limping home" is when there's probably nothing wrong with the bl@@dy engine and it's some over complicated engine management device that's failed and the solution would have been for the manufacturer to have fitted decent quality devices in the first place.

Not a panacea but an AUX is going to be better in every one of the above..

[Fender]

Originally Posted by mhb100

I have a ballistic 7m with a 15hp 2 stroke so about the weight of a 10hp 4 stroke. I've been through several brackets and also now have a strap over the A frame. Tried it out when broke down last summer and I'm not sure I'd want less power but I guess it depends on how far you travel. Being 2 cylinders also reassuring. Many seem to have 8hp single. But in a swell and offshore It would be a real slog. Does your engine have a limp home mode? Can you cruise in company? I'm not convinced an aux is the way to go really.

+1

Any serious distance from land we always try to buddy up, if just pottering round the south coast it doesn't really necessitate a aux, first there's sea start ( worth ever penny ) and secondly there's normally numerous boats around - however and I've said this before - keep on top of your boats maintenance, modern outboards are pretty reliable

[Xk59D]

Maintenance has little to do with breakdowns in my 25 years with boats, my last one was due to bad fuel from Tesco! Had another with complete gearbox failure, like gears went bang failure.

As I said before, it is definitely a Solent thing this don't bother with an aux, relying on passing boats that will tow you in is bordering on negligent and if you are on beach before sea start reach you then you will have wanted that aux, different strokes for different folks.

[Fender]

Originally Posted by Xk59D

Maintenance has little to do with breakdowns in my 25 years with boats, my last one was due to bad fuel from Tesco!

As I said before, it is definitely a Solent thing this don't bother with an aux, relying on passing boats that will tow you in is bordering on negligent.

'Maintenance has little to do with breakdowns' Unbelievable!!

And regarding all the boats around the world that turn to others for help in a situation what ever the circumstances - there ALL negligent??

We're not on different pages - we're libraries apart on life!!

Oh, RNLI 'No particular trends have been identified although mechanical breakdowns remain one of the main reasons for lifeboat launches in our area.'
Official lifeboats launch statistics issued by RNLI - Eastbourne RNLI

[Last Tango]

Originally Posted by Fender

'Maintenance has little to do with breakdowns' Unbelievable!!

And regarding all the boats around the world that turn to others for help in a situation what ever the circumstances - there ALL negligent??

I think it's strange that you feel you're responsibility for your own and your crew's safety ends with good maintenance of your engine and beyond that it's everyone else's responsibility to look out for you..........

[Fender]

Originally Posted by Last Tango

I think it's strange that you feel you're responsibility for your own and your crew's safety ends with good maintenance of your engine and beyond that it's everyone else's responsibility to look out for you..........

And.................I never said that

Might have paid you to read my earlier post

And I quote,

'Any serious distance from land we always try to buddy up, if just pottering round the south coast it doesn't really necessitate a aux, first there's sea start ( worth ever penny ) and secondly there's normally numerous boats around - however and I've said this before - keep on top of your boats maintenance, modern outboards are pretty reliable '

Explain to me what's wrong with the above?

Oh. looks like Xk59D has conveniently amended his post (16), maybe he felt his stance was a little vulnerable.

[Xk59D]

Originally Posted by Fender

'Maintenance has little to do with breakdowns' Unbelievable!!

And regarding all the boats around the world that turn to others for help in a situation what ever the circumstances - there ALL negligent??

We're not on different pages - we're libraries apart on life!!

Oh, RNLI 'No particular trends have been identified although mechanical breakdowns remain one of the main reasons for lifeboat launches in our area.'
Official lifeboats launch statistics issued by RNLI - Eastbourne RNLI

You are reading (and quoting) what you want and not what I wrote, I shall say again as it seems to have bypassed you.

Going out and relying on-

1. Others being there to save your a$$

2. Them willing to help

3. Being able to help, they might be in a sailing dinghy, wtf are they going to do to drag your a$$ away from shore exactly?

If you lose your battery your engine isn't starting nor are you making a VHF call, you confident of getting a mobile signal offshore?

I also said in MY boating life maintenance didn't help MY, (see that word)..breakdowns.

Going to sea and relying on others is bordering on negligence, if my main engine and aux break down then at least when the RNLI arrive I don't feel a complete twerp, looks like your library is different right enough....

"Unbelievable"

P.s I didn't edit out anything, I was still typing on phone champ, thanks for playing anyway.

[Last Tango]

Originally Posted by Fender

And I quote,

'Any serious distance from land we always try to buddy up........,........ sea start................ normally numerous boats around - '

Explain to me what's wrong with the above?

Buddy's responsibility.....
Sea start's responsibility...
Numerous other boat's responsibility....

Not hearing much about self reliance.....

Yes modern engines are more reliable.....but they're not infallible and only a fool would kid themselves otherwise.

[Fender]

Originally Posted by Xk59D

You are reading (and quoting) what you want and not what I wrote, I shall say again as it seems to have bypassed you.

Going out and relying on-

1. Others being there to save your a$$

2. Them willing to help

3. Being able to help, they might be in a sailing dinghy, wtf are they going to do to drag your a$$ away from shore exactly?

If you lose your battery your engine isn't starting nor are you making a VHF call, you confident of getting a mobile signal offshore?

I also said in MY boating life maintenance didn't help MY, (see that word)..breakdowns.

Going to sea and relying on others is bordering on negligence, if my main engine and aux break down then at least when the RNLI arrive I don't feel a complete twerp, looks like your library is different right enough....

"Unbelievable"

P.s I didn't edit out anything, I was still typing on phone champ, thanks for playing anyway.

Post 16 and the quote on 17 are different, so if you didn't edit it who did?
Posts don't magically appear whilst typing - they only show up once submitted - some ones telling porky pies

However, back on topic, you've basically stated that a boat, any boat without a secondary engine / aux is being negligent going out on the water, that's a big old sweeping statement there - one I clearly don't agree with - I was on the water both days last weekend ( south coast / Solent ), saw many hundreds of craft floating and only one aux hung off the back of a shearwater rib, does that make every one else 'complete twerps'?

[Fender]

Originally Posted by Last Tango

Buddy's responsibility.....
Sea start's responsibility...
Numerous other boat's responsibility....

Not hearing much about self reliance.....

Yes modern engines are more reliable.....but they're not infallible and only a fool would kid themselves otherwise.

But arranging a long distance trip with buddy boats is taking responsibility - your there to help others and be helped if the case requires

Sea start is a paid service, a choice - you opt to join to cover you in the event of a issue - how is that NOT taking responsibility

Other boats have always helped people in distress, every time there's a breakdown / PAN PAN local to me Coastguard ask for assistance from boats in the vicinity whey before any emergency service get involved - is this wrong?

Regarding my self reliance, as well as the points already discussed I carry.....

Flares
Main VHF
Handheld with DSC / sometimes all crew have handhelds on big trips
PLB
EPIRB on long trips
Life jackets and spares
Spare water
Spare clothing / waterproofs
Spare kill cords
Waterproof mobile
Anchor and spare

And never needed a tow

Hope your reassured

[Last Tango]

This is simple......

You fill your boat with fuel at a reputable filling station and it transpires the fuel is contaminated.

Previous engine maintenance is not going to stop you ending up dead in the water.

It is YOUR responsibility to get your crew, yourself and your boat back. How are you going to do that.

If you simply abdicate this responsibility on to others you have failed as a skipper. This is a semi-predictable incident that you were not able to deal with, unprepared for, and someone else has had to bail you out.

Regards boats without AUXs......lochs and canals maybe but you seldom see boats offshore here that don't have a secondary means of propulsion.

[Xk59D]

I added the gearbox broke fender.....nice try champ. I said I never edited anything out....see that word....OUT. It would really pay if you read what was wrote

Back on topic indeed....relying on Others is a mugs game and you will NEVER justify it, you are kidding yourself on. I towed a boat in twice last year that maintenance wouldn't have helped. Entire fuse box kaput on a yam 150 4 stroke.

[Last Tango]

Originally Posted by Fender

Flares
Main VHF
Handheld with DSC / sometimes all crew have handhelds on big trips
PLB
EPIRB on long trips
Life jackets and spares
Spare water
Spare clothing / waterproofs
Spare kill cords
Waterproof mobile
Anchor and spare

And never needed a tow

Hope your reassured

Flares............so someone else can come and help you.
Two VHFs.......to call someone else to come and help you
PLB...............so as someone else can find you and save you
Life Jackets....to keep you afloat until someone else can rescue you
Epirb............so as someone else can find and rescue you
Waterproof Mobile.... so you can call someone else to come and rescue you.

Bit of a trend here.....

How about (for a few hundred pounds) an AUX so you can simply get yourself out of trouble????

[Fender]

Originally Posted by Xk59D

I added the gearbox broke fender.....nice try champ. I said I never edited anything out....see that word....OUT. It would really pay if you read what was wrote

Back on topic indeed....relying on Others is a mugs game and you will NEVER justify it, you are kidding yourself on. I towed a boat in twice last year that maintenance wouldn't have helped. Entire fuse box kaput on a yam 150 4 stroke.

'Oh. looks like Xk59D has conveniently amended his post (16), maybe he felt his stance was a little vulnerable. '



OP, Aux's are clearly a contentious decision, good luck

[69cmw]

Does this Sea Start brigade cover the West coast of Scotland by any chance? [emoji848][emoji848][emoji848]

[Last Tango]

Originally Posted by Fender

Like mid channel

Aux's aren't the golden ticket - any reasonable distance from your home port you WILL need outside assistance to get you back

No they're not a golden ticket. I'd agree that 20-30mls is probably at the limits of an AUX but in good conditions that is realistic. However a more immediate risk where it will help is where you're off a reef or headland with an onshore wind so if it only keeps you 100yds off the rocks that means whoever has to rescue you is 100yds off the rocks.
If nothing else you could make an attempt to help yourself and minimize to peril you've imposed on your rescuers.

[Fender]

Originally Posted by Last Tango

No they're not a golden ticket. I'd agree that 20-30mls is probably at the limits of an AUX but in good conditions that is realistic. However a more immediate risk where it will help is where you're off a reef or headland with an onshore wind so if it only keeps you 100yds off the rocks that means whoever has to rescue you is 100yds off the rocks.
If nothing else you could make an attempt to help yourself and minimize to peril you've imposed on your rescuers.

1. 'I agree' - wasn't expecting that
2. 20-30ml, perfect conditions maybe, however just one mile in a head sea against tide would take a loonnnggggg time - that's if you weren't going backwards
3. 100 yards away from a reef / headland..................personally I'd immediately try to anchor and then deal with the boat issue ( I've done it now! )