Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 27 April 2016, 20:20   #21
RIBnet Supporter
 
willk's Avatar
 
Country: Ireland
Length: 4m +
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 14,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by seadogdave View Post
...has quoted me £69 +Vat for an 11" prop and has offered to fit it "Free of charge" if I take it there for it's annual service. he's quoted me £186 +Vat and in a bid to justify it explained it includes plugs and new impeller. Neither of these are listed on the service schedule. OK it lists a valve clearance check (which I doubt he would actually do) but it seems a lot of money for engine oil and filer and lower leg oil change.
There's a hint of vagueness in there. If he actually does what it says on the tin he'll be down engine oil, gear lube (not cheap), plugs, fuel filter, oil filter, impeller (yearly seems reasonable, but not essential - your call) and I'd guess maybe two hours labour max? The prop deal seems sweet. To keep it in warranty it seems maybe OK but I'd mark up all the consumables with paint and ask for the plugs and impeller (c/w woodruff key) as spares. Allow that a mech needs £40 plus VAT an hour to stay in business....
__________________
I'm sorry, but there IS no Mars Bar.
willk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 April 2016, 20:49   #22
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Cambridgeshire
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yam 15 Tohatsu 9.8
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,264
SDDave's guy is looking for £223-20 to do his over the top service. The full service kit plus oil come to £82 so he's after £141-20 labour... too much I reckon.

If he did it by the book without plugs or impeller then parts/oil would only be £35 so I'd be thinking about the price my dealer quoted... around £100 inc vat.
__________________
Fenlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 April 2016, 21:45   #23
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Leicestershire
Boat name: Wizzle
Make: Honwave T38
Length: 3m +
Engine: Suzuki DF20 efi
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 6
Thanks for your comments.
Glad to know I've not picked up a duff engine. I agree it's not really worth worrying about, but I think I wasn't expecting any vibration at all. I think I do too much pottering, as I agree that it smooths out. That's perhaps why not noticed on the 6hp, as it probably got more of a workout. I guess I was thinking bigger = smoother, but it sounds as though we need to get to 3 or more cylinders before that becomes true ? Anyhow, all fine - it's basically a lovely engine
Not sure what pitch my prop is - maybe I can measure this ? Will then just generally monitor for a bit, as too much pottering again means no conclusive findings yet ! but looking like... occasional ventilation - and when fairly well loaded.
__________________
SlideAway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 April 2016, 22:21   #24
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Cambridgeshire
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yam 15 Tohatsu 9.8
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,264
Pitch is printed on the back of one prop blade.

I think the vibration is worse to some extent with the larger moving mass of the engine internals on the 20 vs the 6. As Jeff says the 25 has the offset crank starting to smooth out the mechanical imbalance... as well as the smoother power pulses of 3cyls.
__________________
Fenlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 27 April 2016, 23:26   #25
Member
 
chipko's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Up North and right a bit
Make: XS500/Merc340/Bic245
Length: 5m +
Engine: Mar 60/20/3.5/Hon2.3
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,053
Suzuki DF20AES - prop size

Dave,
Re servicing costs, I've had three annual services all at around £120 each. Bought my motor in the autumn so was over 6 months old when it went in for its first service with 18hrs on the clock. The dealer combined this with an annual service at no extra cost.
Thanks for info on your Ribeye spec. I also contacted them re conflicting info on the TS400. Website stated max 20hp and 92kg max weight, while brochure says 30hp but only 59kg weight. They were adamant 20hp max was correct and I noticed the weight on the website has now been reduced to 55kg. Seems rather low for a 4m rib to me, albeit a very light one. Shame as they seem nice boats. Considering the Highfield CL380 now instead.
__________________
chipko is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28 April 2016, 07:24   #26
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Cambridgeshire
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yam 15 Tohatsu 9.8
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,264
Seems then with Jeffs £65+vat, your £120 and my dealers quoting around £100... then £100 give or take is where it ought to be and the £200+ guys are "avin a larf".
__________________
Fenlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 April 2016, 07:53   #27
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Newport
Make: Ribeye TS370
Length: 3m +
Engine: Suzuki DF20AES
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 51
Ok I'll ring around then. Thanks.

So today I'm gonna order my new prop. Several folk selling them but nobody listing a nut kit. Not worth having a spare prop without a spare nut and I can't see one anywhere for the DF 20?

Cheers
__________________
seadogdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 April 2016, 08:02   #28
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Newport
Make: Ribeye TS370
Length: 3m +
Engine: Suzuki DF20AES
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 51
Btw, I think ribeye and Highfield have their bottoms made by the same Chinese manufacturer. They set them up adjacent to each other at the Southampton show a few years back and the similarities were uncanny.

Also, can I have a dealer name for who's providing these £100 services? If the time and place is right I could incorporate it into a weekend away some time soon.

Ta.
__________________
seadogdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 April 2016, 08:52   #29
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Cambridgeshire
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yam 15 Tohatsu 9.8
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,264
>>>Not worth having a spare prop without a spare nut

Agreed. It was easy with my old Mercury 15 as that was a nyloc nut and a size I had to hand in my misc spares. The Suzuki has a very fine thread and didn't match anything I had.


So I've just received my prop nut, washer and split pin from Sands Marine... about the only folks I could find with them listed and in stock... boat sales,Watersports,Sailing Equipment,outboard finance,kayaks,Inflatables,Electronics

My "about £100 for a yearly service" dealer is probably nowhere you'd visit but its Ely Chandlers, Cambridgeshire...

http://www.elyboatchandlers.com/
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Prop nut kit.jpg
Views:	123
Size:	112.2 KB
ID:	112245  
__________________
Fenlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 April 2016, 09:20   #30
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Newport
Make: Ribeye TS370
Length: 3m +
Engine: Suzuki DF20AES
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 51
Mmm so you elected not to get the stopper. I agree that the risk of loosing that to Davey Jones' is much slimmer than the other parts, prop included and given what they're charging for it I can understand the gamble but once the prop is off there is nothing to keep the stopper on. It's all insurance at the end of the day, but if you had to fit a spare prop with the stopper missing I assume the prop would hit the gearbox housing?

My heart and wallet are conflicted over this one!

Cheers
__________________
seadogdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 April 2016, 09:34   #31
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Cambridgeshire
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yam 15 Tohatsu 9.8
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,264
My thought is that I'd be so unlikely to lose the stopper as (on mine at least now when almost new) the stopper tends to stay on the shaft which you're going to have tilted right up... whereas with the pin, washer & nut you have no option but to take them off and risk dropping in the water.

I guess you could replicate the stopper with a combination of washers you had with you ready prepared as a get you home solution. I might check that out later.
__________________
Fenlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 April 2016, 09:42   #32
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Newport
Make: Ribeye TS370
Length: 3m +
Engine: Suzuki DF20AES
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 51
... And it looks like you just ordered the last one they had!
__________________
seadogdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 April 2016, 09:56   #33
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Newport
Make: Ribeye TS370
Length: 3m +
Engine: Suzuki DF20AES
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 51
Yes that's true. Washers or any old bush just as a get you home. I like that idea.

Thanks.

Trying to find someone with the prop, nut, split pin and some spline grease all under one roof aka shipping charge. Proving difficult.
__________________
seadogdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 April 2016, 10:24   #34
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Newport
Make: Ribeye TS370
Length: 3m +
Engine: Suzuki DF20AES
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 51
Like many a male I just read the handbook and it has thrown my mind into dissaray. With no tacho, how can I be sure the engine is indeed over revving. Sure all teh evidence leads that way but without having the UCU read can I be sure. The manual says theat when Over revving is detected for > 10 seconds teh rpm will be limited to 3000 until teh throttle is closed at which point it will reset teh ECU and good to go again. Mine doesnt do that. It just misfired a few cycles whilst flashing the red warning light then gets back on full chat. Should I spend my prop money buying a diagnostic tool. I intend getting one at some point anyway, or do I go for the prop. It's such a common problem I'm almost sure this will sort it but it doesnt fall in line with the manual. Now I know why we shouldnt read them!
__________________
seadogdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 April 2016, 10:51   #35
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Cambridgeshire
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yam 15 Tohatsu 9.8
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,264
>>>read the handbook and it has thrown my mind into dissaray.

I've upped that stress a notch by buying the service manual and reading through!

A tacho would be ideal to prove this... see this thread... http://www.rib.net/forum/f36/best-ti...ype-71268.html

Be interested to see how you get on with sourcing the lead/software for reading the ECU... I want one eventually too... I've only found them in the USA.

Chipko will know how they behave when hitting the rev limiter.
__________________
Fenlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 April 2016, 11:06   #36
Member
 
chipko's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Up North and right a bit
Make: XS500/Merc340/Bic245
Length: 5m +
Engine: Mar 60/20/3.5/Hon2.3
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 1,053
Suzuki DF20AES - prop size

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenlander View Post
Chipko will know how they behave when hitting the rev limiter.

Ha Ha! Sound like a right hooligan!
We only bounce of the limiter for a second or so (and not that often-honest), warning light flashes and engine misfires for a split second. Back off slightly and power back on instantly. I think you'd have to bounce of the limiter continuously for 10 plus seconds for the ecu to kick in 'safe mode' forcing a re-set.
We also have a tach/hour meter and limiter kicks in on the nail at 6200 revs.

Dave, for info my £120 services are from P.A. Lynch in Morpeth, Northumberland.
__________________
chipko is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 28 April 2016, 11:07   #37
Member
 
Stigomery's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Cambridge
Boat name: SIBylle
Make: Honda Honwave
Length: 3m +
Engine: Honda BF20
MMSI: 235915576
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 431
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffstevens763@g View Post
acording to the manual it's 20hrs or 1 month which ever sooner
This doesn't make sense to me... my engine had done no hours at 1 month... and then sat for about 1 month with only 2 hours on the clock until next run...

...surely it should be 20 hours or, if engine is in daily use a maximum of 1 month since first run?
__________________
Stigomery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 April 2016, 11:09   #38
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Newport
Make: Ribeye TS370
Length: 3m +
Engine: Suzuki DF20AES
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 51
Prop selection wise a quality tachometer could be useful for under revving, but with a limiter in place youll never know how far it would go if it were allowed to. That's why Ive shied away from buying one. For an hour meter reading the ECU is again much simpler once you have the kit. A guy on fleebay was selling one which I believe to be suitable. You need the one with Version 8.0 software or later to work with the DF20. Also note that the engine needs to be running to use it unlike battery equipped EFI models. Not ideal, but that's the nature of the battery less beast.

Yes will be good to hear Chipko's description on how the over rev manifested itself on his craft.

Where did you get the service manual? there is a repository on this site for manuals but It's not on there - yet (Hint :-)

Thanks
__________________
seadogdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 April 2016, 11:09   #39
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Cambridgeshire
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Yam 15 Tohatsu 9.8
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 8,264
Yep I'd take it as a month of almost daily use not a month of storage.
__________________
Fenlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 April 2016, 11:12   #40
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Newport
Make: Ribeye TS370
Length: 3m +
Engine: Suzuki DF20AES
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 51
I missed Chipko's response before I posted that last reply. Yes your findings are identical to mine so I'm now once again convinced of a correct diagnosis. My engineering empathy wont let me hold it on teh limiter long enough for teh ECU shutdown to kick In I guess. Bigger prop it is then.
__________________
seadogdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT. The time now is 08:30.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.