Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 14 May 2016, 04:27   #91
Member
 
chipko's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Make: XS500
Length: 5m +
Engine: Mariner60 Honda2.3
MMSI: 239711398
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by seadogdave View Post
"Serviced in accordance with the service schedule"



Yes well there seems to be a fair few versions of that, so which did they use for you?



I'd pay 125 a year to keep the warranty valid so long as they actually did what they were meant to, but given the variance between what the book says they must do and what they say they're gonna do, Dave

The dealer serviced mine in accordance with the schedule in the user manual. Parts listed on invoice and cursory visual inspection corroborate this.
Schedule in my manual is same as that posted previously by Fenlander.
Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByRIB Net1463214309.073923.jpg
Views:	43
Size:	140.4 KB
ID:	112682
__________________

__________________
chipko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 May 2016, 05:21   #92
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: East Anglia
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Suzuki DF20 EFI
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,276
Bit philosophical this but stick with it if you're intereted...

>>> I have a mint 1989 Ford Sierra XR4x4 that I've had from new. It does about 600 miles a year (SDDave said)

Interesting motor to own. Always been a car/engine guy... over 40yrs since I started tinkering and between Mrs F and self we've owned some 90 cars... some of which would now be modern classics like your Sierra.

My particular interest in this topic and why I keep knawing away at it is that I spent some 20yrs with my own small motor engineer business... I was one of the good guys who saved many people from ghastly attempts by main dealers and fast fit places to charge high prices for unnecessary work.

So I'm very wary of a servicing dealer giving glib responses to why they will do this or that differently to a schedule. Further you have to remember there are two differing aspects to this maintenance work... to preserve the warranty and to preserve the long term condition of the motor... not the same thing at all.

Not saying they would but a dealer could take your money for 5 services during the 5yr warranty period but actually not do the work properly (or at all) leaving you with a motor at risk of failing or being in poor condition at the 5+yr period... but you'd been reassured any problems were covered by warranty up to that point.

Or you could forget the warranty completely and service yourself for that period knowing the work was done correctly. In truth the chances of a warranty related failure are tiny so you would probably end up with an outboard going into its 5+yr period in excellent condition and no extra repair costs above service parts.

And if you are dealing with the places who want 165+ for each of the 5 services plus perhaps 100 extra at the 4yr service for the timing belt that's 925 compared with 120-150 for the parts over that period if you do it all yourself. To save 775+ and know the job was properly done may well be worth the tiny risk of having a failure that would have been covered by the warranty.

At the guestimates of my dealer (45 for the 20hr and 100 for the yearlies) I'll probably go for the dealer stamps in the book. If he ups the prices by 50% or more I may rethink and go DIY. One reason being that my dealer is in a place I don't otherwise visit and the fuel cost dropping/collecting over the 5 services will be 75 and the time used will be more than it would take me to do the services!

Note: One important point is I would not go DIY without buying the software/leads for diagnostics... a 100ish outlay but in my man maths I set special tools aside and don't directly cost them to the motor.
__________________

__________________
Fenlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 May 2016, 14:29   #93
Member
 
chipko's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Make: XS500
Length: 5m +
Engine: Mariner60 Honda2.3
MMSI: 239711398
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 392
Fenlander,
Good post and as you were in the trade can see where you're coming from, very frustrating.
From a layman's point of view I need to have mine serviced to preserve the warranty and maximise secondhand values etc. Factoring in the costs I am also keen to make sure the work has been carried out as am also competent enough with spannering to do all this myself. One of the the penalties buying and running a new motor unfortunately.
On the plus side, I bought my DF20 in 2013 hot off the press when all advice was steer clear of all this new fangled technology. Light weight and EFI were the deciding benefits and three years on they still apply....the others haven't caught up yet. Best bloody 20hp I've ever had....always amazed it can pull a wakeboard quickly up onto the plane. For a 4 stroke hole shot is amazing, thanks to the EFI and engine mapping methinks.
Would be interesting to hear from the boys with big Suzuki's if they also have concerns with dealer servicing.
__________________
chipko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 May 2016, 14:39   #94
Member
 
Country: UK - Wales
Town: Newport
Make: Ribeye TS370
Length: 3m +
Engine: Suzuki DF20AES
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 47
Agreed, special tools don't count. They always pay for themselves if you keep things long enough - as I clearly do!


When t was 10 months old my Sierra went into an RS Ford dealer for a steering rack change. It's never been in a garage since save for tyres and MOT. Long story.


The only reason I'm considering it on this motor as because in the scheme of things it's a relatively new design with no fault history and a few costly things to replace, mainly the ECU but I imagine the fuel pumps and injectors aren't cheap either.


Once 2 or 3 years have passed and google searches for DF20 problem show no hits, I think DIY kicks in for me.


I mentioned it before, but if anyone fancies setting up a group to share some special tools Id consider it. Things like flywheel pullers to facilitate the timing belt change may even be easy to fabricate rather than buy. I haven't looked into it but it looks pretty basic in the service manual. I see the biggest thing as being the break out loom to be able to measure sensors voltages without puncturing wire insulation which Is just asking for trouble in a salt water environment. I think that the diagnostic kit might be a personal piece of kit though. Something you'd want to hand immediately if you had issues. Thoughts welcome...
__________________
seadogdave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 June 2016, 15:47   #95
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: East Anglia
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Suzuki DF20 EFI
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,276
>>>I'm going to the muddy horses mouth tomorrow to find out for certain... Suzuki GB not my dealer as I want to be totally sure. I'll do it by mail so I have a recorded reply.

Well Suzuki have replied to my service interval query... 5wks after I asked with no apology for the delay.

They are saying the oil and filter are always changed 12 monthly but if you do over 100hrs in the 12mths the oil should have an interim change at 100hrs with the filter change not until the 12mths or 200hrs if you reach that first.

Valves they say should be checked/ajusted every 12mths or at 200hrs if this is reached first.**

So yes the schedules in the book could be read two ways and it seems Suzuki are more in line with how SDDave was reading it.

I'd not be amazed if different dealers interpret the schedule in different ways too.

Anyway one or two more trips and I'll have the 20hr initial service done early so it's ready for the many hours we'll pile on it in Scotland this summer.

**Forgive me for thinking this but having dealers ajusting valves worries me. There is quite an old fashioned skill to getting this spot on with the danger of poor performance or even serious damage if done incorrectly. It is probably the most invasive bit of modern outboard servicing and one where a feeling for mechanics is required over and above component swapping which has become the norm for modern engines.
__________________
Fenlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 June 2016, 16:01   #96
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Retford
Boat name: Spy-sea-one
Make: Mercury
Length: 3m +
Engine: Suzuki Outboard/25/4
MMSI: 235074042
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,573
Agree Suzuki GB s--t it took them 4weeks to agree they have a charging kit for my 25 after telling the dealer they didn't when I ordered the engine.
What I carnt understand is why the valve clearances need checking at such low hours ?
__________________
jeffstevens763@g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 June 2016, 16:55   #97
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: East Anglia
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Suzuki DF20 EFI
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,276
Despite the EFI system on these engines being advanced for a small outboard the valve train is old tech (compared with modern cars) so I guess needs checking for the same reason old cars needed it yearly or sometimes at 6k in my early days.

Cross fingers that the camshaft is well hardened and the follower surface quality good then they may stay in spec for years without needing a spanner on them. Quality oil and bringing the engine to temp before higher revs will help too.
__________________
Fenlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 June 2016, 17:23   #98
Member
 
chipko's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Make: XS500
Length: 5m +
Engine: Mariner60 Honda2.3
MMSI: 239711398
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenlander View Post
Quality oil and bringing the engine to temp before higher revs will help too.

Amen to that Fenlander. 5 mins warm up, and 10 mins or more trolling for mine without fail before piling on any revs. After that though it's worked hard.
Valve clearances have been checked on each service but all within tolerance so no adjustment necessary to date.
__________________
chipko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02 June 2016, 17:48   #99
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: East Anglia
Boat name: Nimrod II
Make: Aerotec 380
Length: 3m +
Engine: Suzuki DF20 EFI
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 3,276
>>>Valve clearances have been checked on each service but all within tolerance so no adjustment necessary to date.

That's really good to know thanks.


>>> 5 mins warm up, and 10 mins or more trolling for mine without fail before piling on any revs.

By chance it happens both the place we launch nearest to home and where we holiday there are speed limits in the moorings area which gives a good discipline to running up to temperature with light engine loads before piling on the power in open water.
__________________
Fenlander is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 June 2016, 02:35   #100
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Retford
Boat name: Spy-sea-one
Make: Mercury
Length: 3m +
Engine: Suzuki Outboard/25/4
MMSI: 235074042
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 3,573
so wouldn't the software[PC printout] pick up that valve clearances were not at optimum then david?
__________________

__________________
jeffstevens763@g is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:21.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.