Remanufactured Volvo engines?

BogMonster · 29 November 2007, 09:51

I have been "volunteered" for something and work and wondered if anybody on here could make any suggestions please....

Our company has two launches, one of which is powered by Volvo TAMD63 engines, which are nearing the end of their useful lives. We've tried to get replacement engines from Volvo but they say the engine isn't made any more and nor can they supply rebuild ones. The nearest current alternative (from Volvo) is a completely different engine which not only has completely different fitting requirements (and space is pretty tight in these boats) it also has about 100hp more (which will probably create a whole lot of other problems) and is electronically controlled with common rail injection etc etc which means not only changing the engines but ripping out the whole instrument panel etc - the whole job is looking increasingly impractical and expensive on a boat that is approaching 20 years old but not doing something about it is not an option.

Does anybody know of a third party company that is remanufacturing the TAMD63 engines? I am pretty sure they are used in dump trucks etc, as well as marine engines, so I guess there must be a market for them somewhere. It would have to be a good quality job - changing engines on these boats is a massive PITA and the engines need to last a good time once they are in there - the boats get worked quite hard and often in rough conditions so reliability is paramount. If we could get a good set of fully rebuilt TAMD63's then that would see us for another 5 years or so, so I wondered if anybody could give a recommendation on possible sources for these? Not interested in Ebay one-off second hand ones, it needs to be a proper job preferably with a decent warranty.

Many thanks

Stephen

jwalker · 29 November 2007, 12:00

Doesn't Argentina kinda keep old stuff alive.

BogMonster · 29 November 2007, 12:55

Bah. I saw you had answered it and thought it would be something useful

I would rather fit bloody oars to it than buy an engine from the Argies even if they did have one.

Found a couple of possibilities via Google but meanwhile any suggestions or recommendations would be welcome. Apart from ones involving nearby South American dictatorships erm I mean democracies

yoyo · 29 November 2007, 13:34

Should be some spare on the Atlantic conveyer..They may be a little rusty tho.

Mollers · 29 November 2007, 13:39

Surely if you get on the blower to the British Government, they'll send you a couple of new launches.

They might chuck in a crate or two of woolly hats.

jwalker · 29 November 2007, 13:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogMonster

Bah. I saw you had answered it and thought it would be something useful

Well thankyou sir.

Sorry to disappoint.

Anyway, I know Volvo spares are expensive but a rebore, set of pistons, set of shells, oil pump, skim the head and block faces, reseat and/or replace the valves, seals and gaskets. Fuel pump, injectors and ancillaries as necessary. Since the engines are still working, that's gotta be doable and fairly straightforward, I should think.

Mollers · 29 November 2007, 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwalker

Well thankyou sir.

Sorry to disappoint.

Anyway, I know Volvo spares are expensive but a rebore, set of pistons, set of shells, oil pump, skim the head and block faces, reseat and/or replace the valves, seals and gaskets. Fuel pump, injectors and ancillaries as necessary. Since the engines are still working, that's gotta be doable and fairly straightforward, I should think.

Put like that, it sounds just like any other rebuild.

Would it be totally impractical to take them out, ship them to the States or the UK, get them rebuilt and shipped back? At least that way you'd know exactly what you were getting back.

BogMonster · 29 November 2007, 14:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mollers

Put like that, it sounds just like any other rebuild.

Would it be totally impractical to take them out, ship them to the States or the UK, get them rebuilt and shipped back? At least that way you'd know exactly what you were getting back.

Rebuilding the old ones is an option I am actively pursuing. However we really need another engine to make it practical - one of the engines is older than the other (they have been replaced before - the original engines in her were TAMD61's - but the replacement was staggered by about a year) and in somewhat worse health - it runs "OK" but there are clearly problems brewing.

What we might well do if we can only find one other recon engine is to renew the dodgy one, have that rebuilt either here or at a UK dealer, then fit that in place of the other old one once it is ready and do the second old one up as a spare. The trouble is that the turnaround time for removal, sending an engine to UK, having it rebuilt and then sending it back again and refitting it is likely to be about four months all in, and there is no way we can lose the use of the boat for that length of time as the other launch we have is both smaller and older. Also it has to be sat in the middle of the jetty with the top of the cabin off for the engine change (which also involves removing radios, radars, blah blah blah) which is ever so slightly completely in the way of everybody....

The TAMD's are wet liner engines (or at least the 61's were, I think these are the same) which means that we should be able to whack in new liners, pistons, all new bearings, maybe valves etc and that should be good for another 10,000 hours hopefully

jwalker · 29 November 2007, 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by BogMonster

The TAMD's are wet liner engines (or at least the 61's were, I think these are the same) which means that we should be able to whack in new liners, pistons, all new bearings, maybe valves etc and that should be good for another 10,000 hours hopefully

Yeh, just do it locally. Why would you send them to the UK, or anywhere for that matter? Buy all you might need and you can easily rebuild an engine in a few days. I presume there are some local machine shop facilities should you need them. I've got a feeling Volvo do rebuild kits. The other parts to check are the camshaft and followers. The cam pretty well determines the characteristic of the engine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mollers

Put like that, it sounds just like any other rebuild.

Well it is. They're just old tech cast iron engines.

BogMonster · 29 November 2007, 17:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwalker

Yeh, just do it locally. Why would you send them to the UK, or anywhere for that matter? Buy all you might need and you can easily rebuild an engine in a few days. I presume there are some local machine shop facilities should you need them. I've got a feeling Volvo do rebuild kits. The other parts to check are the camshaft and followers. The cam pretty well determines the characteristic of the engine.

Well it is. They're just old tech cast iron engines.

I would feel safer if the block could be crack tested etc and the job done by somebody who does it all the time - there is a certain amount of expertise here but not a lot in the way of machining - forget getting a cylinder head skimmed for example, not a chance!

They are basic pig-iron injector pump engines which is another reason I really want to replace them with the same, experience with vehicles tells me that modern diesel engines with fancy electronics and common rail injection are mostly a complete liability on dry land never mind in salt water, and I like a quiet life in the office

(No disrespect to Volvo their engines may be fine, it is a general observation...)

PeterR · 29 November 2007, 18:05

Hi,I know a company I,ll dig out the details for you .They work worldwide

Mollers · 29 November 2007, 18:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwalker

Yeh, just do it locally. Why would you send them to the UK, or anywhere for that matter? Buy all you might need and you can easily rebuild an engine in a few days. I presume there are some local machine shop facilities should you need them. I've got a feeling Volvo do rebuild kits. The other parts to check are the camshaft and followers. The cam pretty well determines the characteristic of the engine.

Well it is. They're just old tech cast iron engines.

OK, clever clogs wind yer neck in a bit. It's obvious that Stephen is no fool and if he's running shy of rebuilding these things, it's going to be for good reason. It's all very well listing the basic processes involved with doing the job, but he is in the middle of the South Atlantic with, probably little in the way of engineering facilities at hand. As he mentioned, head skimming is an issue. How about snapped head bolts, seized this or corroded that. Where as we whip down to the local machine shop and chuck 'em a tenner, that mighten be an option in Benniesville nr. Argentina.

Searider · 29 November 2007, 19:26

Hi Stephen,

You say that the replacement engine might be 100hp more? - What engine?
63p is 370hp IIRC - what is being suggested?

If going new the D6 might be a suitable replacement. It can be had with ratings of about 330hp - 435hp (leisure ratings) or 280hp - 370hp (Commercial planing). It's a 6 litre engine like your 63s and from those that i've seen a little more compact.

All electronic though and I appreciate that this might not be as "robust" as you want down there.

PeterR · 29 November 2007, 21:13

Hi Steven,Check out Eurotex International limited they have a website and if you think they can help i could always talk to one of their directors for you as i have done some business with him before.it would be worth an email.

jwalker · 29 November 2007, 21:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mollers

OK, clever clogs wind yer neck in a bit.

On re-reading, it did appear as though I was having a dig at you.

I wasn't, honest. Although I do find your confidence in the professionals a bit odd. Any time I use em, I regret it.

Quote:

How about snapped head bolts, seized this or corroded that. Where as we whip down to the local machine shop and chuck 'em a tenner,

Well you might. I'd just get out the centre punch and drill. Anyway, I've never snapped a head bolt.

Mollers · 29 November 2007, 22:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwalker

On re-reading, it did appear as though I was having a dig at you.

I wasn't, honest. Although I do find your confidence in the professionals a bit odd. Any time I use em, I regret it. Well you might. I'd just get out the centre punch and drill. Anyway, I've never snapped a head bolt.

'Dig' at me? I didn't think so.

I'll always bow to your greater knowledge and wisdom. Which, incidently, is something you never miss an opportunity to impress us with. Whether it's required or not.

jwalker · 29 November 2007, 22:08

Matt · 30 November 2007, 08:35

Yep.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwalker

...Any time I use em, I regret it.

Mollers · 30 November 2007, 09:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt

Yep.

Yeah, ALL professionals are the same. My Granny went for a hip replacement last month and came out with a cracking set of 34DD's.

BogMonster · 30 November 2007, 10:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Searider

Hi Stephen,

You say that the replacement engine might be 100hp more? - What engine?
63p is 370hp IIRC - what is being suggested?

If going new the D6 might be a suitable replacement. It can be had with ratings of about 330hp - 435hp (leisure ratings) or 280hp - 370hp (Commercial planing). It's a 6 litre engine like your 63s and from those that i've seen a little more compact.

All electronic though and I appreciate that this might not be as "robust" as you want down there.

The TAMD63L-A engines fitted to the Speedwell at the moment were commercially rated to 235hp @ 2500rpm - the old original 61's were about 210 I think. So 310hp is a big jump, but I guess it is not rocket science to limit/derate the engines anyway - it is the complexity of changing EVERYTHING over including engine mounts which are glassed into the hull, that I am not at all keen on. Because it is all electronic control it also needs the gearboxes changed at the same time, it means none of the spare gearboxes we have will fit (gearboxes last as little as six months!) meaning extra cost.

The issue with doing the work here is partly about experience and availability of machining facilities but to be honest it is more about spares availability in the middle of the job. It's fine to get an overhaul kit but if you pull it to bits and break something or find something you didn't expect, it's a minimum 2 week wait to get anything here even by DHL. And at the moment the flight that brings the DHL in is mostly full of passengers, at work we've just waited six weeks for an urgent DHL consignment of vehicle spares due to lack of space on the aircraft. And if you get into it and find the cylinder head is warped or something, the cost of getting something like that down by DHL is telephone numbers even if it does come when you want it (£15 a kilo approx).

We might well end up doing it (if I can find a spare engine to drop in to give us some time to play with) but the preferred option is to get two new or factory recon engines to go in now. I do hear what JW says about often doing a better job yourself and I have experience of that too