Reliability....aux engine....or not???

[Alanpatt]

Hi all,
being a bit, no, completely new to all this I'm looking for a general consensus over whether auxiliary engines are common or not. I have been gifted a 6hp Yamaha 2t but once it sits on the transom there isn't enough width for it. Now, has anyone else got a Searider, with an A-frame and running an auxiliary engine?

I have a 90hp Mariner on mine now & really, I'd prefer to take more fuel than an extra engine, weight wise.....

Any comments would be appreciated.

Cheers all,
Al.

[whisper]

There are some very thin mariner 3.3hp outboards that are worth a measure

[colcreate]

I made this one for my Searider due to the space restrictions.
The backup engine will be stored behind the jockey seat backrest (custom made for the job) and lifted into place if needed.
Here's a photo of the transom mount, I used a block of 1" thick black polypropylene as the pad and welded 4mm stainless plate to the tube.

[Squid Boat]

Nice work Colcreate

Cheers, Squid

[Alanpatt]

Now that bracket is do-able! May have to have bash....

[BigDipper]

Originally Posted by colcreate

I made this one for my Searider due to the space restrictions.
The backup engine will be stored behind the jockey seat backrest (custom made for the job) and lifted into place if needed.
Here's a photo of the transom mount, I used a block of 1" thick black polypropylene as the pad and welded 4mm stainless plate to the tube.

Nice bracket. Where did you get the thick polypropylene from as my auxiliary pad looks a bit tired and that looks great.

[colcreate]

Originally Posted by BigDipper

Nice bracket. Where did you get the thick polypropylene from as my auxiliary pad looks a bit tired and that looks great.

Dumpster Diving about 3 years ago, spotted some black and grey pieces in a skip on an industrial estate while visiting a customer. I have used it for all sorts of spacers and stuff. I have very little black left and can't find the grey at the moment.

[9D280]

jumping back to the original Q - what do you plan to use the boat for?

I have an aux, but if i'm cruising in company it stays at home. (why lug the weight around when I have 2 or 3 100+HP auxes (aka the other boats) to tow me home?)

I definetely use & test it before departure when I'm cruising alone on the west coast. But for an organised cruise in company a long rope will be more weight efficient!

[HUMBER P4VWL]

We had an aux with our Merc 90 on an SR 5.4. What a terwat it was. Took it off in the end. If the engine is reliable and you don't go to remote areas, just use your main.

If you go offshore, the aux is pretty pointless anyway. If you are near where others/lifeboats are you should be fine.

Only advantage to an aux really is to keep you from drifting on to rocks etc in rough weather. I mean you are hardly going to go 20 miles with an aux!

[Poly]

Originally Posted by HUMBER P4VWL

We had an aux with our Merc 90 on an SR 5.4. What a terwat it was. Took it off in the end. If the engine is reliable and you don't go to remote areas, just use your main.

That's an odd view HP.

Surely the aux is because even an engine that's never failed before today might do, unless there is actually a 100% guaranteed reliable engine (with 100% reliable fuel and electrics).

If you go offshore, the aux is pretty pointless anyway. If you are near where others/lifeboats are you should be fine.

again I think thats a bit odd. Offshore = long way from help + potential for big waves. Aux has 2 purposes here (1) keep you pointing in the right direction so you don't broach and get capsized. (2) get you home, or at least stop you drifting further from help. Now capsize is rare, and capsize without 'trying'* is even rarer, but off shore might well = nasty conditions, and might well mean comms are very tricky so expect a long wait for a rescue, and if conditions are getting worse I wouldn't want to be on boat with absolutely no power.

Only advantage to an aux really is to keep you from drifting on to rocks etc in rough weather.

well that's certainly one use, and one time that you may not be able to wait for someone else to bail you out.

I mean you are hardly going to go 20 miles with an aux!

not that many ribs go 20 miles from A safe haven on their own - although obviously some do. Plenty go 20 miles from home though - an aux will possibly get you into A harbour rather than call the lifeboat. If you are 20 miles from the nearest harbour expect the lifeboat to take probably 4 hrs (maybe more) to come out find you and tow you home. A good aux would have you a long way towards home in that time.

Alternatives to consider:

- can you anchor. Anchoring won't fix your problem buys you time. A long strong rope can be useful for a tow or letting you anchor in deeper water.
- will friends be around. 9d280 makes good point - but if you are relying on others for a tow then make sure you have suitable bridle / towing arrangements.
- SeaStart etc. basically the AA of the sea. This is an option in some areas. They won't stop you hitting rocks or capsizing though so you need to assess the risk for the type of boating you do.

However having been stuck disabled in the middle of a channel as a big ship bears down on you I recommend having options other than a paddle!

[miccheck1516]

Originally Posted by Poly

If you are 20 miles from the nearest harbour expect the lifeboat to take probably 4 hrs (maybe more) to come out find you and tow you home.

I get the point your trying to make, and agree that having an auxillary engine is a good idea, but what i've quoted above is just laughable.

Essentially your suggesting lifeboats do 5 knots.

Of course not knowing where you are and being lost is allways a possibility, but an auxillary engine is utterly useless then anyway as you don't know where to go....

I think where you do your boating is the biggest factor here. I'd probobly not bother with one down the solent on a busy day, as I know there would be plenty of people about, up the west coast of scotland however would be a differant story.

[Mextli]

Originally Posted by miccheck1516

Essentially your suggesting lifeboats do 5 knots.

Depends on Lifeboat and sea conditions though.

I have an aux on my SR4, at least an Aux Bracket. When i leave sheltered waters or go out in roughish conditions i take it with me. Doesn't hurt anyone, and doesn't upset the balance that much.

Just important is to already have it hanging on the transom so you can quickly start it in an emergency and you should've tested it in port.

[mister p]

I can't see how you can argue against having an auxiliary engine. It's like saying why carry more fuel than you need........err, because you may need it.

[willk]

Originally Posted by miccheck1516

Essentially your suggesting lifeboats do 5 knots.

He's not. You're suggesting that the lifeboat is stationed in the nearest harbour. This will not often be the case. Poly's figure includes muster time, travel to the casualty (incl locating), securing the casualty and towing to port at a reduced speed.

[miccheck1516]

Fair point, I missed the bit about getting home in my first read of it.

Mind you, muster time for lifeboats is negligable in the grand scheme of things, inshore boats will launch fast and be able to atend to a local incident fast, while the bigger boat might take a little longer but would generally be used for bigger jobs lasting some time. It's certainly not an issue the RNLI look into, which tells me they are hapy with how things are, and they don't feel they can improve. Towing is similar, 10-15 mins to rig a tow and get underway...Unless of course we are talking major incidents, which we are not....

Mextli, if sea conditions are so bad as to cause a lifeboat to do 5 knots, the lifeboat won't go. Coastguard would sooner send a helo and get the guys off the boat and think about it later once the POB's are safe.

Anyway the discussion reminds me of a year or two ago, we had just put our Hunter Europa in the water, dad had some stupid idea of putting a goddamn seagull on the back of it.
Was heading back in after a nice sail and had pulled the main sail down in prepreation for starting the engine to go back into the Marina, started the engine in neutral, then as I popped it into gear heard a ominous 'crack', looked back and realised the outboard bracket had sheared and wasn't going to hold, cue me hanging out the back of the boat, still sailing with the headsail, trying to drag this 5hp beast of a seagull over the pushpit, two stroke mix everywhere!
Of course it was race night and all the yachties were heading in so got a good look at the escapade....

Anyway dad had left the 2hp suzuki two stroke in the forward berth for emergencies, I took the boat on a broad reach with just the headsail up still, and was able to sail along and pop the 2hp on the back with no problem whatsoever, before limping back into the marina and making sure all the racers had left before making my hasty departure!

I convinced dad to sell the seagull two weeks later.

[willk]

Originally Posted by miccheck1516

Mind you, muster time for lifeboats is negligable in the grand scheme of things, inshore boats will launch fast and be able to atend to a local incident fast, while the bigger boat might take a little longer but would generally be used for bigger jobs lasting some time. It's certainly not an issue the RNLI look into, which tells me they are hapy with how things are, and they don't feel they can improve.

Local station/s are about 8-10 minutes from pager to first comms underway. The RNLI are currently upgrading their all weather fleet to a minimum of 25kts, up from 17/18kts. They always think about improving.

[HUMBER P4VWL]

Originally Posted by Poly

That's an odd view HP.

Surely the aux is because even an engine that's never failed before today might do, unless there is actually a 100% guaranteed reliable engine (with 100% reliable fuel and electrics).
again I think thats a bit odd. Offshore = long way from help + potential for big waves. Aux has 2 purposes here (1) keep you pointing in the right direction so you don't broach and get capsized. (2) get you home, or at least stop you drifting further from help. Now capsize is rare, and capsize without 'trying'* is even rarer, but off shore might well = nasty conditions, and might well mean comms are very tricky so expect a long wait for a rescue, and if conditions are getting worse I wouldn't want to be on boat with absolutely no power.
well that's certainly one use, and one time that you may not be able to wait for someone else to bail you out. not that many ribs go 20 miles from A safe haven on their own - although obviously some do. Plenty go 20 miles from home though - an aux will possibly get you into A harbour rather than call the lifeboat. If you are 20 miles from the nearest harbour expect the lifeboat to take probably 4 hrs (maybe more) to come out find you and tow you home. A good aux would have you a long way towards home in that time.

Alternatives to consider:

- can you anchor. Anchoring won't fix your problem buys you time. A long strong rope can be useful for a tow or letting you anchor in deeper water.
- will friends be around. 9d280 makes good point - but if you are relying on others for a tow then make sure you have suitable bridle / towing arrangements.
- SeaStart etc. basically the AA of the sea. This is an option in some areas. They won't stop you hitting rocks or capsizing though so you need to assess the risk for the type of boating you do.

However having been stuck disabled in the middle of a channel as a big ship bears down on you I recommend having options other than a paddle!

I can't be arsed reponding to all your points, but you're taking each element to the nth degree.

Sometimes you try to analyse people's posts far too much rather than taking them at face value and seeing the general point being made. It's quite off putting actually. Is that the role of the mods?

At what point for example did I say an engine is 100% reliable. One point was that if its newish, in warranty, never had problems and is operating in waters with other users I personally thought an aux on such a small boat was a pain. Plus the most likely cause of breakdown is fuel and if your aux uses the same fuel it'll die too. If not, and you're offshore you won't have enough to get back anyway.....

[willk]

Originally Posted by HUMBER P4VWL

It's quite off putting actually. Is that the role of the mods?

I think some members are confused about "the role of mods". They aren't drawn into existence by JK from some fiery cauldron to answer questions and settle squabbles. They are members of the forum like everyone else and have a right to post their opinion. I think Poly's carefully considered thesis with appendices is a nice counterbalance to your off the cuff comments. The OP can make their own mind up what suits them.

[HUMBER P4VWL]

Originally Posted by willk

I think some members are confused about "the role of mods". They aren't drawn into existence by JK from some fiery cauldron to answer questions and settle squabbles. They are members of the forum like everyone else and have a right to post their opinion. I think Poly's carefully considered thesis with appendices is a nice counterbalance to your off the cuff comments. The OP can make their own mind up what suits them.

It's tiring reading his dissertations...

[Poly]

Originally Posted by HUMBER P4VWL

It's tiring reading his dissertations...

Heaven forbid the forum might have some boating related content rather than little in jokes, but I can put it more succinctly if you're struggling:

If your 20 miles from home when your engine dies you'll be glad of an aux.
If you are close to shore/rocks when your engine dies you'll be glad of an aux.
If your in rough seas when your engine dies you'll be glad of an aux.
If your super reliable engine dies for the first time ever you'll be glad of an aux.

In fact like any "insurance policy" it will seem a lot more valuable when you need it. Is it life insurance you sell? I thought you would get the idea.