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Old 27 November 2005, 06:06   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn
It all comes down to the legal title - if a person hires a vehicle it is still the legal property of the hire company. Also if it is on HP ore other finance the property belongs to the finance company.
It doesnt matter who owns the vehicle, say you have a car on HP and you run it on red, you get pulled, first time fine, second time car taken off you. You will then get an investigation into your mileage and asked to provide reciepts or proof that you have bought white. It is them calculated how much you "owe" in unpaid duty. You then get the option of paying their calculations or you loose the vehicle and may get fined. The HP company/bank/hirer still wants their money due.
It is the same now if you run lorries with-out an operators licence, the truck is impounded, regardless of who owns it and it is very difficlut to recover it.

It get worse if its a company owned motor as they will check every vehicle in the company.
Here it is common now for the Customs men to be pulling and checking cars and also visiting Building sites to dip vehicles for red.

Andy
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Old 27 November 2005, 08:00   #32
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Originally Posted by codprawn
Apart from the coloured markers are they still using Quinizarin and Coumarin? Apparently the UK wanted to retain these are they are harder to remove than just coloured dyes.
As far as I know in the UK Quinizarin (1,4-dihydroxyanthraquinone) is still routinely added to Red Diesel at > 1.75ppm, as well as CO Solvent Red 24 and Yellow 124. It is "invisible" to the naked eye but can be detected by fluorescence spectroscopy. 4-(N-ethyl-2-(1-isobutoxyethoxy)ethylamino)azobenzene can also be used (at > 5ppm)but isn't routinely added.

Coumarin (1,2-Benzopyrone) is added to Kerosene at > 2ppm. Again this requires spectroscopy to detect it.

Fluorescense spectrometers are relatively cheap and can be designed so they are easy to use so it is reasonable to assume that this is part of the roadside testing equipment.

I'm not sure they really are harder to remove - its more that for a small scale user (such as an individual farmer etc) its not possible for them to do it easily. For a large laundering plant its not that hard to mask/remove it.

The hardest thing to hide is that Red Diesel typically contains much higher sulfur content than road diesel - but there is no easy road side test - yet!

Quote:
Originally Posted by codprawn
Also I wonder if they ban you from using Red diesel in boats will you still be able to use Kerosene?
I think it is probably already illegal to use Kerosense in a boat. Kerosene has an even lower level of tax than red diesel.

In any case I think you can safely assume that the revenue will have that covered if they change the regs, and it will become illegal to opperate a diesel engined boat in the UK unless it has full duty paid on the fuel. This is the current situation with road vehicles.
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Old 27 November 2005, 08:27   #33
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Black and white here

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsP...yType=document

I havent heard of anyone having their vehicle siezed providing they politely cough up the on the spot fine!

Biodiesel is available from some suppliers not tinted at the rebated price of approx 40 p litre.

I have run my car on cooking oil before, infact we took part in a test and did it for some time. Cooking vegetable oil is available for approx 40 p litre and can be run quite safely in most engines with a small amount of diesel say 30 % to thin it. It does look odd buying 50 lires in your local tesco though.

I think its fun looking at alternative fuel options , and is the only way forward. You can save tax legally by self declaring and more importantly save the planet!

Infact its strange sometime all the whinging going on when there are so many cheaper fuels out there......
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Old 27 November 2005, 12:15   #34
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An interesting read!
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Old 28 November 2005, 03:37   #35
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If caught with red Derv in the tank of your car the revenue calculate the duty owed by doing an average MPG against recorded mileage. There is no legal requirement to record the mileage in a boat so how are the revenue doing to come up with a fine
Especially if you consider that some boat are only used once or twice a year while others are used daily Des
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Old 28 November 2005, 05:15   #36
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If caught with red Derv in the tank of your car the revenue calculate the duty owed by doing an average MPG against recorded mileage. There is no legal requirement to record the mileage in a boat so how are the revenue doing to come up with a fine
Especially if you consider that some boat are only used once or twice a year while others are used daily Des
Hour Meter x Manufactures Figures ?
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Old 28 November 2005, 05:32   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Gee
Hour Meter x Manufactures Figures ?
Yeh but unlike a car, the hour meter is not covered by any standards or legal requirement(there is no legal req. to have one), so if you were caught the revenue would have to prove you had used X amount of fuel without any facts, such as mileage, to go on.

To defend yourself you need only say that it was the first time you had used the boat since the change in the law and they would be hard pushed to prove otherwise. So I am confused as to how the revenue could enforce this legislation Des
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Old 28 November 2005, 06:00   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scary Des
the revenue would have to prove you had used X amount of fuel without any facts, such as mileage, to go on.
I think you will find that the the revenue will come up with a figure & you have to dis-prove it.

Welcome to Brairs' Britian.

Regards
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Old 28 November 2005, 06:07   #39
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[QUOTE=Nick Thompson]


Welcome to Brairs' Britian.


Where the hell is it?!!


Duckin' Fyxlexia is such a pian in the asre!
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Old 28 November 2005, 06:52   #40
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Quote:
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I think you will find that the the revenue will come up with a figure & you have to dis-prove it.

Welcome to Brairs' Britian.

Regards
Maybe, but they usually try to come up with a figure based on something. With a car it is all the mileage youíve done since you bought it. But they canít do this with a boat, and as draconian as this government is I really donít know how they can enforce this change at a user level.
The only way they will be able to control use of red derv. will be at a distribution level and that is already quite open to abuse Des
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