Reaching the end of my tether with outboards...non-runner...

[Max...]

Arrrghh. FFS...etc...

All loaded up, family, picnic on board, across country, river slipway, boat in, family on board....no-go...try for an eternity...no-go, load it all back up and home, why do we bother!?

What is it with outboards? I've owned 20 odd cars over the years, leave for a month or two they start on the button.

This is my Mariner 2006 15 2 smoke, near immaculate inside and out, perfectly maintained, purchased a couple of months ago. Only used it twice, on the sea and did not miss a beat. Last time 3 weeks ago, flushed after, run dry, fuel stabaliser used all year round as paranoid about the ethanol thing ( http://www.rib.net/forum/f36/ethanol...ter-61847.html )

Today just would not start, took hood off (as tiller gear shift) and with 1/4 to 1/2 throttle it would start and run OK but no idle, soon as I let throttle off it died.

Any idea guys? Presuming some carb/idle jet issue?

Seriously thinking this is it with boating as the frustration of outboards is seemingly not worth the hassle, why can't they just run like cars...

Wasn't alone today as the only other boater down there had the same issue - non-runner, fuel issue.

[jyasaki]

I'd guess carbs. Probably contaminated fuel causing blockages. I wouldn't think a month isn't enough to cause problems due to deteriorating fuel.

Out of curiosity, how many 2-stroke cars have you owned?

I laid off diving for a year, so the boat only went out twice for abalone diving. Sat for about 6 months, then again for about 4. Aside from making sure the battery was charged, didn't do anything special. Took a bit of cranking (maybe 20 seconds) but fired up and ran fine both times. F-115; I'm pretty pleased with it.

jky

[neil.mccrirrick]

Tank not vented is my guess. Sunny day load of pressure in the tank causing a fuel shortage. If you loosen the fuel cap and here air escaping deffo that

[Trimix]

Thats a bummer.

But it is most likely very simple - crap fuel, fuel blockage or shortage as previously mentioned.

Once you get it sorted that will be a lesson learned so it wont happen next time.

Could be worse.

[Max...]

Did check all the basis of course, fuel supply, tank vent etc. Mild, windy and raining down here!

Always use decent branded fuel with stabiliser and correct oil ratio, tank is clean, brand new inline fuel filter in the new fuel line + filter in engine cleaned. Fuel flowing fine and it runs fine at throttle open so that's not the issue. Not sure what 'lesson' I can learn TBH, I look after it impeccably and do everything I can to help it run reliably but you'd think you could rely on an engine to restart and run ought given the scenario in the OP...

[uncle al]

It sounds like fuel trouble, will it tick over and run ok if pressure is kept on the primer bulb? If it does I would want to fit a fuel pump repair kit,if it doesnt see some suggestions below.
1/ is it old stale fuel? if so remove strip clean the carbureter re-assemble and refit.
2/ has it been serviced recently?
3/ are the correct spark plugs fitted as per parts book?
4/ is the obm set up correctly as per chapter on settings for timing and carburation?
5/ are the compressions ok?
good luck

[jamool]

Originally Posted by Max...

Arrrghh. FFS...etc...

All loaded up, family, picnic on board, across country, river slipway, boat in, family on board....no-go...try for an eternity...no-go, load it all back up and home, why do we bother!?

What is it with outboards? I've owned 20 odd cars over the years, leave for a month or two they start on the button.

This is my Mariner 2006 15 2 smoke, near immaculate inside and out, perfectly maintained, purchased a couple of months ago. Only used it twice, on the sea and did not miss a beat. Last time 3 weeks ago, flushed after, run dry, fuel stabaliser used all year round as paranoid about the ethanol thing ( http://www.rib.net/forum/f36/ethanol...ter-61847.html )

Today just would not start, took hood off (as tiller gear shift) and with 1/4 to 1/2 throttle it would start and run OK but no idle, soon as I let throttle off it died.

Any idea guys? Presuming some carb/idle jet issue?

Seriously thinking this is it with boating as the frustration of outboards is seemingly not worth the hassle, why can't they just run like cars...

Wasn't alone today as the only other boater down there had the same issue - non-runner, fuel issue.

I am a newbie and not quite sure what I am doing however my old seloc manual says not to run an outboard dry before storing it. I think it had something to do with the fact that there is no lubrication left in the cylinder.

[Bigmuz7]

Plugs

[Will75]

Originally Posted by neil.mccrirrick

Tank not vented is my guess. Sunny day load of pressure in the tank causing a fuel shortage. If you loosen the fuel cap and here air escaping deffo that

Surely an unvented tank under pressure in hot weather would increase fuel flow rather than cause fuel starvation?

[Nos4r2]

Originally Posted by Will75

Surely an unvented tank under pressure in hot weather would increase fuel flow rather than cause fuel starvation?

Yep..

[Max...]

Thanks for input guys but just to clarify:

1. Engine is minty and fully serviced to the letter by me after purchase it and it ran perfectly on two fairly long sea days throughout after this (new NGK plugs, gear oil, fuel system/tank clean, gear oil, impellor etc, etc). Only done about 8 - 10 hrs since the service then.

2. No issues with fuel line, bulb, vent etc - as I say it runs fine with throttle held open (conclusion that non-idle circuit fuel suply and plugs etc cannot be an issue) just will not start without throttle held open or idle. Very on/off - ie it won't even cough or splutter/start on idle.

3. After last sea day it was fine when flushing.

Odd thing is coming back three weeks later you might expect it to cough splutter or run erratically but as above it just will not run full stop - leads me to believe it must have gummed up in the idle jet or something despite running dry and stabaliser? ie nothing has 'broken' just sitting there?

As I say fuel was decent with stabaliser added right away.

Anyone stripped one of the carbs in these and can help out with clues - has to be a carb issue surely.

Coming across as Mr Grumpy but 100% totally pi$$ed off with this - boat engines are now in my experience so unreliable if despite all the above (ie looking after them perfectly) they still let you down in this way just because they have sat there for three weeks. And after the first time it lets you down you never have the same confidence again especially when going to sea...

Originally Posted by uncle al

It sounds like fuel trouble, will it tick over and run ok if pressure is kept on the primer bulb? If it does I would want to fit a fuel pump repair kit,if it doesnt see some suggestions below.
1/ is it old stale fuel?

No.

if so remove strip clean the carbureter re-assemble and refit.
2/ has it been serviced recently?

Yes, see above.

3/ are the correct spark plugs fitted as per parts book?

Yes.

4/ is the obm set up correctly as per chapter on settings for timing and carburation?

5/ are the compressions ok?

4+5 - not checked other than idle speed but ran perfectly for 8 hours or so before 'laying up' (!) for three weeks.
good luck

[PeterM]

You have my sympathy with the problems, I'd guess it is however something simple like a blocked carb idle jet.?

All the posts remind me why i splashed out on a new efi engine recently. What price the knowledge it well start and go on the button every time? In its lifetime it will pay for itself on fuel saving, but appreciate I'm lucky to be able to do this.

[ShinyShoe]

I suppose Peter has a point. Not only are you comparing 2 stroke with 4 stroke you are comparing mechanical to electronic managed engines..

My first cars were mechanical with points etc. seem to remember opening the bonnet a lot on them! My modern car is computer controlled which does seem to mean when I turn the key it kicks into life and goes... but i also know when the dreaded orange light comes on its gonna cost me £80 to find out whats wrong and usually a whole load more to fix it. The Mrs's car did this the other week... quote for fix is £600... the fault wouldn't exist on a non-computer controlled engine and would drive just fine...

So my conclusion is that computerised engines are probably lots more reliable but when they fail will be beyond most people to fix and will usually cost a fortune to fix. Your old croaky mechanical engine is maybe less reliable but fixing it will probably cost less than the diagnosis for the computerised one!!

[Chris86]

Must be so frustrating!! My story will make you feel even worse. The rib i had bought hadnt seen water for 6 years!!! didnt drain the fuel, just topped up with fresh stuff. It started on the first cylinder, couldnt believe it!! It "hunted" a bit for the first 5 mins at planing speed but after tht it ran perfect. Had my first outing in her since i bought her a year ago, the first turn n off it went. Only niggle was a blocked tell tale which was easy fixed. Over the moon with it

[spartacus]

Know how you feel. Had a similar issue with a poor running Twatsoo. Turned out to be timing was out and carbs needed synchronised.

Back to your problem. Are you definitely getting a spark. Might only be running on one cylinder. Pull the plugs, clean and re-gap. Get someone to hold the spark plug with the HT lead connected against the outboard head, and pull to turn it over. Do this with both spark plugs to ensure you're actually getting a spark. Sometimes the HT connection can be loose or it's not making contact with the spark plug properly.

Next carbs. Before stripping down, loosen the drain plug and look at the fuel colour. If there's sediment, then I'd go for a carb strip down.

Also ensure choke is out, tank is vented and put the throttle past 'start'. Make sure stop lanyard is connected, etc.

Under the cowl, check all electrical bullet connectors. Had a Mariner 4hp that wouldn't start because I'd accidentally pulled an earth cable.

[uncle al]

If you are sure that the fuel system is ok then we sorry need to look at the electrics.
1/any wires pulled out that you can see?
2/have you dis-connected the kill wires, if you have does it run?
3/If it runs with the kill wires diconnected are all the earth wires crimped firmly to the wires and are the earth connections clean and tight?
4/ If all the above are correct you need to do a voltage check on the switch box ,stator and trigger. I always tested voltages never the resistances.
This should have been number one have you done a spark check at the spark plugs, I dont mean lay a spark plug in the btm tray and watch it spark, you should use a spark checker that has a nice big gap that really makes the ingintion system work hard.
Be careful spark checking is dangerous (open spark plug holes that have fuel/air mix coming out when pulled over)

[henryfreston]

First port of call for me would be cleaning the carb, it's just another thing to tick off.

The jets are so bloody tiny that even a grain of sand can get lodged in there and prevent it from running 100%.

Check out some youtube videos on outboard carb cleaning if you haven't done it before.

[bingosucks]

Lmao i reccon carbs outcof interest im just learning you can set the carbs up as per instructions but they dont want to work for no logical reason . I watched a video of someone set a vacuum gauge on a carb this is the only way to tune it correctly as im guessing now theres an element of wear this catches a lot of very good mechanics ou

[Nos4r2]

Take notice of Uncle Al.Ignore everything else that's been said so far .

It's unlikely to be carbs unless you've either got water in them or flooded it on 1st pull and kept trying to start it on full choke. The hot weather could mean you need to use no choke.

[willk]

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

The hot weather could mean you need to use no choke.

I seem to recall he did that with his old 9.8 - Doubt he did it again