Pacific 22 / Mermaid

Andy Cox · 03 June 2004, 16:20

Hi
Can anyone tell me what power the 4 cylinder Mermaid engine is rated at for continous use and at WOT. I seem to remember seeing different ratings from 140 to 180 hp. I'm looking at one this W/E which the owner thinks is rated at 180 or 160hp. Presumably, different ratings are acheived by tweaking the fuel pump and or the turbo. Is there any easy way of determining what the engine has been rated at?

I've also been told that flat out is only about 20 to 25 knts and using quite a lot of fuel.

Cheers all

Andy

Scary Des · 03 June 2004, 16:38

Andy
In original guise they were 140hp and do, on average with an average prop. (16 ¾ X 21” pitch) about 25. My one uses 1 lt per NM at WOT. Most are tweaked at the pump but I don’t know how you can tell other than the seals being removed or maybe lots of black smoke.

Des

Pete7 · 03 June 2004, 17:03

Andy, I have managed 30 knots but that was lightly loaded and she now averages 27-28 tops with 200 hp. No easy way to say what Hp the engine is. You could take a note of the serial number and give mermaid a ring to see if they have worked on the engine. However there are a few about with claimed 200 hp and they are not. The only real way to find out would be on Mermaids dyno.

Fuel is about the same as Scary Des at 1LPM.

Pete

Andy Cox · 03 June 2004, 17:23

Thanks Guys,

Des, is yours rated at 140 hp or higher? If so, I'm a little bit puzzled if you are getting about 25 knts where as Pete is getting about 27 -28 knts at 200 hp.

Pete, is yours the 4 cylinder, and presumably 200 hp is about the most you could get out of this unit?

Thanks

Andy

Pete7 · 03 June 2004, 17:44

Yep, on a good day its 200 hp but that was 4 years ago on mermaids dyno, so probably a bit less now.

Pete

Searider · 03 June 2004, 18:05

Just to chuck in my 2ps worth -

Was looking at Pacific 22 a couple of years ago and spoke with Mermaid about ratings and was told the following:

The ones supplied for the navy P22s were 140hp.
These could be uprated to about 160hp - 180hp. Any more than this and they might not last too long. This is due to the 140hp version having higher compression pistons than the leisure version.
The leisure version produces up to 200hp. (Can't remember if this has a different turbo as well)

I have also had a ride in a Fairey Huntress with an "experimental" 230hp Turbo 4. Seemed to run OK but was a bit smoky (black smoke). The boat would only go as slow as 6 knots on tickover at which the engine vibrated awfully - when the speed was increased so that the vibration went away the boat speed was 9 knots!

As pete7 says - call Mermaid they have always been helpful.

roohairy · 03 June 2004, 21:49

I've just bought a P22 hull and most of the bits to put it back together again, Spoke briefly to Mermaid and aparently there are 2 different turbos fitted and 2 different sets of internals for the fuel pumps, they couldn't tell me how to work out what I had but suggested that I give them the serial numbers and they might be able to find out, but haven't been able to do this yet.
Good luck! Oh, and mine's apparently 150Hp, didn't come from the navy..... who knows what I've got?!! At least it starts and runs ok.

Scary Des · 04 June 2004, 07:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy Cox

Thanks Guys,

Des, is yours rated at 140 hp or higher? If so, I'm a little bit puzzled if you are getting about 25 knts where as Pete is getting about 27 -28 knts at 200 hp.

Andy
I'm not sure, what I do know is that it came straight from the navy and that there are no lead seals on the pump. So it is possible that a navy boy has been fiddling

Des

Neville · 04 June 2004, 15:09

Ok, here we go again !

The vast majority of ex navy P22's were fitted with 140 hp turbo 4's.

Remember that this turbo 4 is a dover block and is commonly fited to ford cargo lorries.

The earlier p22's were fitted with a turbo 4 that used a 'dorset' block. This was termed in the motor trade as a 'D' series lorry.

The Dorset block wont do much above 140 hp, and I think as standard in a P22 was between 115 hp and 125 hp. Looking at them, they are quite similar from the outside.

The newer 'dover' block which was the most common fitted can be cranked up to 160 - 165 hp by simply adjusting a screw on the top of the fuel pump which increases the fuel - quite easy to do but better if it is set up on an injection pump machine.

If looking to go further, the turbo generally has to be uprated, and some internals changed. Sometimes the fuel pump has to be changed as some were fitted with the non turbo fuel pump.

The best thing is to contact mermaid with the engine number and they can tell you what it was when they sold it. After that you would have to take the pump off, put it in to a pump specialist and they would tell you what the output on the pump was.

Another thing to keep in mind, these engines were never sold by ford as a turbo engine, Mermaid bought the blocks, changed the pistons etc. Quite unlike the newer blocks where Ford have done most of the work before it leaves the factory. Good luck...

Andy Cox · 04 June 2004, 16:22

Thanks everyone for the info and advice.

I will go and have a look at it and note down the engine number ( by the way, where is the engine number on these units? ) and call Mermaid about it.

Cheers

Andy

Neville · 05 June 2004, 17:25

the number is normally stamped on a mermaid plate on top of the chrome rocker cover. sometimes they have fallen off or been removed, in which case you have a problem......

Seb · 05 June 2004, 17:37

The engine serial number (Ford number) is stamped both on a plate on the bell housing (starboard side) and on a flat casting on the engine block behind the injection pump.

Good Luck

SEB

Dunc · 29 June 2004, 19:37

Andy,
I just bought a 22 which is allegedly 180hp on a Dover turbo 4. I spoke to Mermaid about it (who were brilliant) the guy said that the way to find out if the upgrade was done properly is to check what turbo charger has been fitted should be either Mermaid or KKK and if you can give them the numbers off it they cna tell you if it has been upgraded at all or properly. The other way to tell is buy how fast it goes if your boat is getting on for 300 knots then it has been uprated properly. Hope this is helpful. I am a novice and learning as I go. There are a few things I would like to do to my 22 one idea is to mount the console at the back on the engine cover to create deck space. Still thinking about it though.
Dunc

Seb · 29 June 2004, 20:16

Pics, pics, pics......

Neville · 29 June 2004, 21:27

Dunc,

That is the best way, to phone mermaid. If the boat is a fast one, it does not mean that it has been uprated by mermaid though. Just by tweaking the fuel screw can uprate the power at WOT quite a bit. Very few P22s have actually been uprated properly above 165 hp due to the costs involved.

Also factors such as weight, fuel onboard, clean hull, good prop etc can make a massive difference. I always have more fun leaving my friends at the dock, making the boat lighter, and taking it out for a spin on my own. - mmm I wonder why i dont have many friends!

Pete7 · 29 June 2004, 22:02

Dunc, this one is Jamies and a P24 which is currently for sale but might be what you are thinking about. why do you need deck space ?

Pete

Dunc · 07 July 2004, 19:15

I need the deck space as I want to use the RIB to run eco-tours and would prefer to have clients sat in front of me and facing forwards where possible. I looked at Jamies boat but considered it too big for towing every day. I am thinking about mounting a console on the back of the engine housing with bolsters behind to lean on. Then have four people sat on the housing in front two facing side ways and two forwards and then either four pod seats or two two person benches in front. Jamie actually gave me the idea of doing this although he was talking about fitting a console like the one on his Pacific 24 (I thought it would be a 28 at 8.5 metres?). To reply to the engine uprating comment when speeking to the guy at mermaid he said the chances are if the upgrade was not done poperly the boat would not have gained any performance and the key is to check the parts and serial numbers used for the upgrade particularly checking the make of turbo unit.

Neville · 07 July 2004, 22:46

Dunc, Do remember that the speed wil drop considerably when you have more than six people on board, including all the extra kit needed to code the boat. So i sometimes wonder if there would be much point in putting more than 6 seats onboard. Pete7, what is the max number of people that you have had on board with all the kit etc, and what speed were you getting?

Pete7 · 08 July 2004, 05:54

Nev, with the old prop (size not known) had 8 people on board and it took 2 miles to plane.

Empty boat is 27-28 knots with full coding kit. With four divers (say 25 kg of kit each speed is down to 23 knots. With six divers, 20 knots although we have been down to 14 knots battling into a head sea.

As you say speed does drop considerably with the extra weight.

My coding is with YDSA and she passed stabilitly tests for 9 people on board. That was probably our lot, with the extra weight of the coding kit including liferaft etc. Dunc you might be able to use the same stability tests which would save a few bob as once one in a class has passed I think they all will if there are only minor modifications. You would have to chat with them.

Pete

Dunc · 08 July 2004, 17:41

Thanks for the advice. I was thinking about that configuration so that everyone was facing forward and in front of me. The other option is to keep the seating the same but put stainless steel frame work around to give everyone support. I am intending to get a few friends on board to do a few weight/speed tests.