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Old 02 August 2006, 17:23   #11
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Country: UK - England
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Boat name: SMH Rib / War Shot
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Engine: 10hp Yam / 150hp opt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostboy
I know the 4-stroke/2 stroke debate is one that will run and run but why do so many people on here regard the Optimax as the "default" 2-stroke of choice against a 4-stroke? The Evinrude E-tec offers better value when servicing periods costs etc are taken into consideration, is cleaner and on most tests out-performs the Optimax for economy, power and torque (until you get to the highest part of the rev-band). I am sure that one or two E-tec users on here come along and sing its praises.
Because the chap has budget constraints - is unlikely to find many secondhand boats with an e-tec fitted. Plenty of boats with Optimaxes around - probably more than Yam HPDIs due to purchase costs.

I can't find it but there was a thread on here that linked to a scandanavian magazine that did a comparison test between about 6 different 150hp engines on identical boats. If i remember correctly all engines were within 1l/hr at a fast cruising speed. 4 strokes quiet and economical at slow speed. 2 strokes more punchy and higher top speed.

My Optimax 150 on the Scrpion only uses marginally more fuel than the 90hp Carbed Mariner I had on my 5.4 Searider - about 1l/nm.

Oil consumption averages out at about 50:1 - so one litre at 5 for every 50 litres of petrol used. Petrol 1 per mile, oil 10p per mile.

Very happy with it.

Would consider an e-tec on my next boat - but need to wait for them to get older and cheaper first!
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Old 02 August 2006, 18:18   #12
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I think when all is said and done My reason for decision would be based on reliability and repair costs when the motor is 5 years or so old , if you are looking at buying secondhand . I guess all motors are expensive to repair these days , the 4 strokes aint exactly simple these days . Surely there is some info somewhere about how many hours a motor will do before it needs major work , presuming its not abused . Like a car we all know roughly how many miles is enough on a car before it becomes unreliable .
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Old 02 August 2006, 18:57   #13
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Well I am more than happy with my Suzuki DT225 - last of their 2 strokes. Seems to use just as much fuel as other people's similar sized 4 strokes. Throttle response is amazing and it is very small and light for a 225 - love it!!!
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Old 02 August 2006, 20:28   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian parkes
I think when all is said and done My reason for decision would be based on reliability and repair costs when the motor is 5 years or so old , if you are looking at buying secondhand . I guess all motors are expensive to repair these days , the 4 strokes aint exactly simple these days . Surely there is some info somewhere about how many hours a motor will do before it needs major work , presuming its not abused . Like a car we all know roughly how many miles is enough on a car before it becomes unreliable .
I wondered that when I bought mine, but as my engine only has 300 hours on it (6 yrs old) I hope I don't have to worry about it for a while! I guess one might reasonably expect 1000 hours plus before any major work is required in "normal use"?

My concern comes from the knowledge that 2 stroke bike engines usually need to be rebuilt about every 5 minutes ... but I guess a lot of it is "how long is a piece of string" depending on usage, and I don't run mine at full chat for very long - it drinks too much!!!
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Old 02 August 2006, 20:45   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BogMonster
I wondered that when I bought mine, but as my engine only has 300 hours on it (6 yrs old) I hope I don't have to worry about it for a while! I guess one might reasonably expect 1000 hours plus before any major work is required in "normal use"?

My concern comes from the knowledge that 2 stroke bike engines usually need to be rebuilt about every 5 minutes ... but I guess a lot of it is "how long is a piece of string" depending on usage, and I don't run mine at full chat for very long - it drinks too much!!!

2 stroke bikes are an awful lot more fragile than outboards and rev a damn sight higher though. Outboards are almost agricultural in comparison.
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Old 02 August 2006, 22:55   #16
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The Yanks use their outboards a lot commercially - they are usually good for about 2000hrs if looked after before a rebuild is needed!!!
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Old 03 August 2006, 00:50   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nos4r2
2 stroke bikes are an awful lot more fragile than outboards and rev a damn sight higher though. Outboards are almost agricultural in comparison.
I guess so. Mine just sounds buzzy and fragile compared to the V8, and I am always pessimistic about buzzy fragile sounding things even if they are darned good fun

Hopefully it will outlive the rest of the boat then - it still has a running in restrictor fitted to keep it to 5500rpm and this particular model is apparently designed for 6000, so that should help I guess. The thirst makes sustained thrashing at high revs a self-regulating process
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Old 03 August 2006, 04:17   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BogMonster
I wondered that when I bought mine, but as my engine only has 300 hours on it (6 yrs old) I hope I don't have to worry about it for a while! I guess one might reasonably expect 1000 hours plus before any major work is required in "normal use"?

My concern comes from the knowledge that 2 stroke bike engines usually need to be rebuilt about every 5 minutes ... but I guess a lot of it is "how long is a piece of string" depending on usage, and I don't run mine at full chat for very long - it drinks too much!!!

Absolutely no comparison. My 'Rude 115 (Ficht) is a V4 1800cc engine developing 115 horses so less than 63hp/litre, most two stroke bike engines are trying to push out between 25hp and 150hp (in extreme cases) from a cc capacity of between say 125cc and 500cc therefore trying to get 200-300hp/litre from their engines. This makes them much more highly stressed as well as having the revving issue mentioned by a previous poster.

Please don't get me wrong I do like the Optimax, I have had the benefit of driving the same hull as mine with the same weight and position of seating (slightly different types) with a 115 Optimax and being able to compare it with my Rude 115 and there is very little in it. Mine is certainly more torquey as I would expect a V4 to be, the noise issue is a personal choice but there is little in it at low revs and the howl from the Optimax is matched by a beatiful V4 warble from the Rude. The consumption on both boats is almost identical after 100+ hours of use on mine (burnished antifouling bottom) and the other (smooth grp). Oil use appears a little better on my Rude than the Opti but it's marginal. The Rude is smaller and lighter than the Opti (and remember the E-tec is a replacement for mine and is even smaller and lighter).

My understanding of the servicing of both is that the E-tec is now on 3 years/300 hours and the Optimax is still on 1 year/100 hours. I may be wrong though. Hence my comment about cost savings on servicing (I know the Ride figure is right as they keep mailing me!)

I suppose in summary I would say that if and when I came to replace mine it would come down to what deal I could do but I would certainly stick with 2 stroke and probably, if I could get the price right, with the Evinrude.
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Old 03 August 2006, 06:10   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lostboy
Absolutely no comparison. My 'Rude 115 (Ficht) is a V4 1800cc engine developing 115 horses so less than 63hp/litre, most two stroke bike engines are trying to push out between 25hp and 150hp (in extreme cases) from a cc capacity of between say 125cc and 500cc therefore trying to get 200-300hp/litre from their engines. This makes them much more highly stressed as well as having the revving issue mentioned by a previous poster.
I was having much the same thoughts about hp/l after I posted, I think my 115 is about 1800cc too so not too buzzy in hp/l terms, in fact being Johnson it may even be more or less the same motor as yours?

I suppose it is more that everything else I own with an engine in would be likely to react unfavourably to sitting at 5000rpm for any length of time, so it is an irrational fear. I'll get over it by the end of next summer I am sure, and consequently be a lot poorer
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Old 03 August 2006, 06:22   #20
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I think if I had to choose another outboard now I would seriously look at a Mercury Verado. The grunt of a 2-stroke allied to the quietness of a 4-stroke.
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