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Old 03 December 2010, 16:28   #1
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Old engines - your opinions please

as per the title, remembering some of us boat / RIB on very tight / limited budgets, what in your opinion is the best engine out of all the old 2 strokes : Chrysler - Volvo Penta - Evinrude - Crescent - Johnson etc, you get the idea
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Old 03 December 2010, 17:14   #2
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I've had some shockers in the past....on the two stroke front my first was a dog rough 45HP chrysler which looked like a museum piece (when i had it 17 years ago)....that seized up eventually and was followed by an ancient Johnson 40 seahorse (electric start!!!). A few Mariners of different vintages followed (I also run an '02 ex RNLI 40 at the moment), a couple of 4 strokes inbetween and a Yammie 90.....which was just fab! Didn't miss a beat when I had it nor did it for another forum member who had it after me!

If it's for your Avon, my friend runs a mid 90's Yammie 40 on his 4m Searider and IMO it is a great set-up! Very subjective I suppose, but would say that a Yammie would be a pretty good choice
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Old 03 December 2010, 17:50   #3
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admittedly there are some shocking engines out there, for my part since i was little my father started off with a 35 Chrysler, suppose that's where my liking for old engines comes from ( living so far from the sea my hobby is collecting and restoring old engines) esp Chrysler and Archimedes/crescent/Volvo penta's.
They are very simple technology with no fancy electronics / fuel systems to go wrong, my favourite at the moment is a 450 offshore Archimedes penta, even the timing is fixed no advance or retard,

I am going to try out my "modern" 1993 ex RNLI evinrude 50 on the sr4, still interested in every one else's choice / opinion of old pre 1990 engines
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Old 03 December 2010, 18:23   #4
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well my ORIGINAL 1976 Merc 500 ( 50hp ) is still going great, all original including 17" prop & spark plugs.........had it from new.........starts 1st or 2nd pull......manual start......( spark plugs ORIGINAL ).......boat 1973.......Gunning built on Tremlett stage 1 hull.............
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Old 03 December 2010, 18:36   #5
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For me the best engines from the mid 1970,s were Yamaha.

over the years i have owned many engines and repaired many for other people .

mercury i have never owned one but came to the conclusion they were overated and it was a fashion statement ,and that unless it was a newish one they were ok , more than a few years on it and they seemed to have problems on the electrical side solenoids./starters ect granted though they were mostly on abused speedboats .

selvas seemed a not bad power head but many seemed to have problems with the lower leg gearbox.

owned a volvepenta once that came with a fishing boat , that never seemed to run just right but it did have 2 water pump impellers ,one for the engine cooling and another aux that you could use as a bilge pump .

had a few johnsons which dident seem too bad .

Had a couple of Perkins which were on a par with the johnsons ,,Heard Perkins started making them them for the North sea oil boom operaters of the 60s to try compeate with the rival outboard companys .

and about a 100 seagulls

Like everything else, some had had better care than others along with hard use through to others being used perhaps only a couple of times in a decade .
one thing, they may have been less reliable back then but you at least you could a go at fixing them in most cases .
i have even removed fly wheels out at sea and cleaned up and reset points .
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Old 03 December 2010, 18:38   #6
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Best - Yammie 15hp early/mid eighties? 1 pull to start in summer, 2 in winter, every time

Worst - Selva If I could afford the petrol I'd never had turned it off, then I wouldn't have to stress about whether it would start again!
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Old 03 December 2010, 18:59   #7
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Best Engine

In my limited experience the best engine is a old 70hp Chrysler, it was electric start but no power trim and tilt.
On one occasion my mate forgot to put the out board lock on the leg and when I put it in reverse the engine kicked up and the prop was out of the water.
Only ever broke down twice
1st time blocked carbs, (easy fix even out at sea)
2nd time the prop fell off-what a bummer!

I also have a old suzuki 30 hp on my SIB, it, like the chrysler is all mechanical and easy to maintain- love it.

new engines; they are a joke.
They remind me of teenagers; they have a high opinion of themselves and break down at the first sign of some real hard work!

Lee
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Old 03 December 2010, 19:24   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m chappelow View Post

mercury i have never owned one but came to the conclusion they were overated and it was a fashion statement ,and that unless it was a newish one they were ok , more than a few years on it and they seemed to have problems on the electrical side solenoids./starters ect granted though they were mostly on abused speedboats .
been told the older the better..........?? also told the "new" are not so good...?

first o/b was a 1963/4 Jonhson 40 electramatic...we found it a great engine but others said ..........sxxt.............

2nd o/b, Merc 500 redband manual start, raced it in the early 70s, a GREAT engine.....

3rd o/b & still in use 1976 Merc 500 manual start ( blue-band "hockeystick" ) a GREAT engine.


4th o/b Honda 45 hp 4stroke ( 1993/4 ish ?) a GREAT engine, had it on a cruiser for about 10 years,


5th o/b Yam 4stroke 40hp ( and current ) , also a great engine.but battery goes down sometimes...

also have a honda 2hp good wee engine....but not water cooled...!!!


re-built a few early Johnson & Mercs in me day.........easy to do.........
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Old 03 December 2010, 19:28   #9
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new engines; they are a joke.
They remind me of teenagers; they have a high opinion of themselves and break down at the first sign of some real hard work!

Lee
I would go with this..........

but remember with old engines.........it must be a good one.........
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Old 04 December 2010, 06:16   #10
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I am going to try out my "modern" 1993 ex RNLI evinrude 50 on the sr4, still interested in every one else's choice / opinion of old pre 1990 engines [/QUOTE]

I have that engine on my sr4. It is a little pocket rocket. Great choice! Oh and for the best 2 stroke- Yammies all the way. I have 5 of them on my boats. The twatsoo are not to bad either.
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Old 04 December 2010, 06:28   #11
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Carniti 18hp, can't remember much more about it except you needed a pocket full of shear pins! As a 15 yr old showing off to your mates was difficult when you had to go astern from Forder to Saltash Bridge
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Old 04 December 2010, 07:10   #12
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Have had a few old outboards, my Dad had an old 1967 Evinrude which ran great but wouldn't go astern.
I've had a couple of old Mariners, a 5hp and 15hp, both were faultless. A 60hp clamshell shich was shagged and a Yam 55hp which once its going is great!
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Old 04 December 2010, 07:46   #13
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Quote:
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well my ORIGINAL 1976 Merc 500 ( 50hp ) is still going great, all original including 17" prop & spark plugs.........had it from new.........starts 1st or 2nd pull......manual start......( spark plugs ORIGINAL ).......boat 1973.......Gunning built on Tremlett stage 1 hull.............
Two years ago i bought a speed boat with a 1978 90hp mercury on the guy had also had it from new (he was a car mac.)so new his way round an engine .He swore blind the impellar was original.It still pumped very strong.I,ve always been one to have it changed a bit like a timing belt .But it makes you think
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Old 04 December 2010, 08:30   #14
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been told the older the better..........
That's why I lost my job in the retirement home.
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Old 04 December 2010, 09:32   #15
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i have had Johnson 40hp Seahorse (Terrible, but gives us a laugh now at the amount of times it broke down and some at sea!)
Mercury 40 Awful
Another Mercury 40 reliable but crap!
Yamaha 55hp Brilliant but the thieves thought so as well!
Yamaha 9.9 Brilliant
Yamaha 8 horse mid 80s still got Brilliant!
Suzuki 65hp PTT Great!
Suzuki 15 4stroke (2years old still got ) Fantastic Engine and Very Versatile
And the Yamaha 55hp i just bought with the Sr4 Time Will tell
Oh and a Tohatsu 3.5 great little Engine and quite powerful for a baby!
I would Say Stick with Jap if Possible?Yamaha Suzuki, But thats just my opinion.
Mike
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Old 04 December 2010, 09:49   #16
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If I had to go back to a carbed 2 stroke again then the choice would be Johnson (or Evinrude) V4's or alternatively the Yamaha V4's are also supposed to be excellent.

Nice Torquey engines with little to go wrong.

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Old 04 December 2010, 11:30   #17
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I've owned a couple of Yammies and Twatsoos and simply love 'em.

A 1986 Yamaha 25hp, 2-stroke, short-shaft, 2 cylinder model (25DM) that powered a Zodiac MkII GT. It was used every year for 2 weeks and only ever let me down once (when the starter rope snapped). Part of the reason I religiously changed them every season there-after. Although it was an old engine (20 years), I still managed to sell it for £500.

The other Yamaha was a 1995, 3 cylinder, manual start and lift, 40hp model (40V 6H4), auto-lube, long shaft outboard. It was in mint condition. The perfect power to weight ratio for a Zodiac Pro 420. When I had to order an impeller, the marine dealer traced the engine to a grey US import (originally owned by Princess Motor Yacht company). It never started on the first or even the second pull, but when it fired into life it would run continually, never missing a beat. It was a fantastic engine. The thing was just so damn well made. Alas I sold that outfit too (and there was a Tohatsu 3.5hp auxilliary with zero hours)!

Now onto a 2006 Tohatsu 60hp 2-stroke, autolube, model 60C. Looks like it was forged in China, looks rough compared to the Yammies, but I plan to invest time and money to get it to run sweet. Like any engine, look after 'em and they'll look after you!
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Old 04 December 2010, 12:12   #18
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I would Say Stick with Jap if Possible?Yamaha Suzuki
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Old 04 December 2010, 12:40   #19
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any old engine as long as its a yamaha!
old mariners up to 55hp were yams -our 40hp mariner that we had from new never missed a beat over 15 years-except the fuel tank connector used to fall apart but that was a Mercury bit!
Very early two stroke suzukis legs used to have the paint fall off and rot away at the end of a year-suzuki rep went all quiet at boat show and whispered that they tried to forget those years.
Chryslers, never rated them and they left the uk market but then they stuck the powerheads on merc legs and called them force. Delightful.
The saying in our boat club in the 70s and 80s was
"are you going out in the boat tonight-oh I forgot youve got a mercury- so you will be at home mending it!"

oh yeah - we had a 350 volvo penta as well. Big lump but loadsa pull for the hp
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Old 08 December 2010, 08:56   #20
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I reckon with engines of the kind of age we are talking about the individual machines' history will be way more important than any design flaws at the factory.

Some mercs were bad, I can think of three I know of that are >25YO and start first or second pull. I discovered that my Clamshell is quite an old design version (the 70s machines wavelength talk about), and have added / changed three pretty important bits to alter cooling, fuelling & spark! How reliable is it now? Let me run it in & remind me this time next year to tell you!

Other oil burning museums:

Johnson 25. C. 1972 (design first appeared in '65) Powerhead OK, throttle mechanism occasiaonally looses a roller (held on with an O-ring!) that means you get less throttle as the shaft follows the cam instead of the bigger diameter roller, gearbox was atrocious split along the axis of the prop shaft design, which means they are a right pain to seal.

Johnson 2 & 4. Both uber simple, and reliable once "de abused". Not far off a seagull in a box with a recoil starter in terms of technology. So old they don't even have telltales! at slightly over 9 & 12KG respectrively (fuelled) nice & light. Going nby the case liveries & the carbs the 2 is about '74, the 4 is around '79. Both originally appeared with differnet plastic cover in a more 60s styl-ee in 1962.

Yam 2 pot 55. Harsh, noisy & a bit thorsty but incredibly torquey machine only spoilt by the earth straps breaking & the powerhead turning to shortbread which turned a "simple" thermostat change into the death of the engine (as I stripped the thread of the bolts with a helicoil - still in the inserting tool!) Having said all that, it was reliable until the head dissolved!

Suz DT25 - 1993. Lots more electickery on this one, only once majorly let me down - turned out to be the throttle sensor packing up. Still got me back in "limp home mode" (i.e in the style of a 4Hp aux) but it kept going.
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