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Old 30 March 2014, 15:31   #1
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Newbie - Covered in oil and petrol !!!

Well ! I have bought a Yamaha 28a and a Zodiac 3.8m mk2.

To cut a long story short this 28a is a DOG to cold start. Vent open , choke out , tiller to start and a bit more, Adonis pulling the started , 25 times later we are away.

I took it for its maiden voyage to Ullswater , how great it was , for 20 mins, then it stopped for 2 hours whist I diagnosed the problem - bad quick release fuel connector - removed it , dipped the cable into the tank and were away again.

Once home I put the engine in the wheelie bin , (not to throw away) and filled it with H2O. I was letting it get cold and trying to start more efficiently over a few days.

I had read - PRIME PRIME PRIME - so i primed , i pumped the primer so it was hard ( i had read that a carb would not over fill and would stop once full) but it made little difference , it started eventually but it was hard - once its warm its easy.

The trouble is , I have squeezed that darn primer bulb so much my carb no longer stops the flow of fuel - i kept squeezing and it kept filling - the wheelie bin water ran with fuel and it was well and truely flooded. Now covered in fuel and a little worried i have broke the engine I detached the fuel line - drained the carb (check me out) and cleaned the spark plugs - after 10 more tries It started again - albeit rattly , smokey and fast.

I let it run for a bit and it settled - I attached the fuel line and things change - it doesnt want to idle and wants to cut out - the blue smoke starts getting thicker. I take the fuel line off and it settles and the blue smoke slows.

I think that there is something wrong with the Carb - it seems to be stuck open (i dont know if thats possible but it would make sense , i dont even know what a carb does ) - anyway - its in this state now !

What on gods green earth do i do with it ! and does my diagnosis make sense . Im hoping there is a quick fix to wack a valve into place on the carb so i cannot over fill in the future - plus the blue smoke bad tick over problem.

Any advice for a novice trying to learn a bit about the dark arts of outboards !
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Old 30 March 2014, 16:25   #2
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May I suggest step 1 might be to get a clean plastic fuel can, fill it with totally fresh fuel from the petrol station, add the right mix of marine 2 stroke oil - being sure to get the mix right for your engine - and trying it then. It's amazing what difference fresh decent quality fuel can make! Maybe try a whole different fuel container, hose, bulb and connector. - perhaps you can borrow one off a mate or another boat for a few mins. That will dismiss possible poor fuel, air leaks, etc before you start looking at anything more onerous! Good luck.
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Old 30 March 2014, 16:56   #3
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Hi, it is possible to pump the priming bulb too much you can overcome the float valve resulting in flooding, stop pumping when the bulb gets firm not rock hard.

With my 25hp 2 stroke Mariner I pull out the choke, turn tiller to start, give it one good pull (99 times out of 100 it will fire but not run), push choke back in and then it very rarely fails to start the next pull.

Check spark plugs gap and clean, and if fitted check points and check timing.

HTH Good luck
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Old 30 March 2014, 16:57   #4
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Hi Diver

I have only had the boat and engine about 5 days and the fuel is fresh from then , totally empty clean tank , oil @ 75.1 , rather then the 100.1 due to the age of the engine 30 od years.

Prior to me over filling the carb with the primer it was working fine - except the hard start in the cold.

Its only since I flooded the carb that the blue smoke and poor timing has occured

I truely believe that I have managed to break the carb or something - just dont have a clue what to do about it !

Im thinking it might have to go in for a pro to look at - i want it up and running for over easter !
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Old 30 March 2014, 17:03   #5
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I'm reckoning you have blown the fuel pump diaphram and you are now pumping fuel into the crankcase, hence the rough running with loads of smoke and unburnt fuel in the bin.

Take the fuel pump off and check the diaphram nearest the engine.

Been there done that.
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Old 30 March 2014, 17:05   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtturbo View Post
Hi Diver

I have only had the boat and engine about 5 days and the fuel is fresh from then , totally empty clean tank , oil @ 75.1 , rather then the 100.1 due to the age of the engine 30 od years.

Prior to me over filling the carb with the primer it was working fine - except the hard start in the cold.

Its only since I flooded the carb that the blue smoke and poor timing has occured

I truely believe that I have managed to break the carb or something - just dont have a clue what to do about it !

Im thinking it might have to go in for a pro to look at - i want it up and running for over easter !
In my opinion you have flooded the engine so it will smoke and run rough whilst it gets rid of the excess fuel.
Going off what you say I cannot see any way that you could have damaged the carb.
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Old 30 March 2014, 17:29   #7
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Thanks for all the responses guys -

There was alot of fuel in the bin water - i left it running for 15 mins , hoping to clean it out and get back to normal but no cigar.

I have give up for today , im sure next door was getting sick of me revving the engine and cursing .

Before the "change" happened I could not over prime the carb , it sayed solid and was rock hard - it was only after me over doing it that it suddenly became weak and i can pump for england ! It does firm up , but nothing like before.

How easy is it to take the carb off and clean up the valve ?

I will also check the diaphram , I have no idea where the fuel pump is , do ancient yamaha engines have them - it would make sense as there was alot of fuel in the bin water - enough that I put the chimnea out in the opposite corner of the garden , cos if a spark had found its way into that wheely bin I would not be writing this - far too much for just flooding

I never had an issue with the spark plugs and they are new - but inthe last 15 mins running with this problem , they were black and oily.

So its sounding like either some carb voodoo , or fuel diaphram wickedness.
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Old 30 March 2014, 17:42   #8
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I THINK your pump should look like the picture below.

Take it off, it's just two bolts, block the OUT spigot with your finger and blow into the IN spigot, if you can keep blowing then your pump is shafted.
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Old 30 March 2014, 17:50   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A1an View Post
I THINK your pump should look like the picture below.

Take it off, it's just two bolts, block the OUT spigot with your finger and blow into the IN spigot, if you can keep blowing then your pump is shafted.
If that was the case then the engine would not run after the carb bowl had emptied as the pump would not work.

But for what it is I suppose its worth checking.
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Old 30 March 2014, 17:52   #10
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If I were you I'd change the fuel pump diaphragms (should be done as part of a service anyway) and clean the carb out properly any your engine will run much better. There is no need to prime and prime the bulb. You shouldn't squeeze it so hard all it needs to be is firm as the carb is full and if clean and set right the engine should start without too much difficulty.
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