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Old 26 April 2016, 02:30   #31
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Well done Mister Stevens!

That looks to be me, AND I get a spare switch for when this one dies!

And on budget as well!

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Old 26 April 2016, 02:36   #32
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love a bargain spot on cheers
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Old 26 April 2016, 12:29   #33
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on my boat he uses HIS KC to recover you (everyone I trust with the throttle normally has their own on their L/J). However as it will most likely be at low speed the chance of the boat still being in throwing distance is high. If two of you are in the water and the prop is spinning at 4 knots do you think you can catch up, or keep out the way if it circles back?
You are better prepared than most (nearly all, I'd imagine.)

I wasn't at all saying I could catch an idling boat; simply pointing out that the merc type doesn't require a spare cord per person (though you do lose the engine shutdown. Recovering someone from the water to the boat requires a shutdown on my boat anyway. I don't leave the motor running near swimmers.)

Unrelated note: JWalker, you described a home-made Merc/Quicksilver type kill switch.
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Old 26 April 2016, 12:46   #34
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Poly's strategy is not completely unique. Permanent attachment of KC to lifejacket means you can never forget to attach it to you... ...and as the engine won't start without the other end attached you in build safety. But it does mean each crew member has to have one on the LJ (and they need to wear the LJ)...
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Old 01 November 2018, 17:34   #35
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A bit of a thread resurrection.

I am in the process of re-engining (4LHA-STP) my Pac 22 and I have a question about the kill switch.

The engine came with the instrument panel including the stop button which appears to be a press to make i.e. you press the stop button, this energises the coil and causes the solenoid to operate shutting off the fuel supply.

My thought is that I'm going to re-configure this so that whilst the engine is running the solenoid is energised. You break the circuit, this de-energises the coil which in turn turns off the fuel supply.

The kill switch will go in the circuit between the stop switch and the solenoid.

This means that in the event of a loss of power, the engine will stop which sounds, to me, the safer way.

For info I'm going to use a Murphy solenoid and a SD85 solenoid drive time delay to 'protect' the solenoid. It also means that I can use the ignition switch to turn the engine off rather than using a separate stop switch. The kill switch will interrupt the 'hold' signal on the solenoid which will de-energise the solenoid and shut off the fuel supply.

I'd appreciate your thoughts on whether my methodology on the stop solenoid / kill switch is sensible or not.
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Old 01 November 2018, 18:40   #36
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This means that in the event of a loss of power, the engine will stop which sounds, to me, the safer way.
It certainly makes sense to me; presuming that you know how to easily spot and disable a problem at sea. e.g. a dodgy connection would kill the engine?
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Old 01 November 2018, 19:00   #37
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This type of shut off valve (normally closed) may make life easier, I would look for one with a manual override and mount it where you can get at it in heavy seas easily.

Diesel Fuel Shutoff Valves

However Isn’t one big advantage of the diesel morptor the fact it will keep running without power? So once started you could conceivably loose power but still make it back to shore?
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Old 01 November 2018, 19:00   #38
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A bit of a thread resurrection.

I am in the process of re-engining (4LHA-STP) my Pac 22 and I have a question about the kill switch.

The engine came with the instrument panel including the stop button which appears to be a press to make i.e. you press the stop button, this energises the coil and causes the solenoid to operate shutting off the fuel supply.

My thought is that I'm going to re-configure this so that whilst the engine is running the solenoid is energised. You break the circuit, this de-energises the coil which in turn turns off the fuel supply.

The kill switch will go in the circuit between the stop switch and the solenoid.

This means that in the event of a loss of power, the engine will stop which sounds, to me, the safer way.

For info I'm going to use a Murphy solenoid and a SD85 solenoid drive time delay to 'protect' the solenoid. It also means that I can use the ignition switch to turn the engine off rather than using a separate stop switch. The kill switch will interrupt the 'hold' signal on the solenoid which will de-energise the solenoid and shut off the fuel supply.

I'd appreciate your thoughts on whether my methodology on the stop solenoid / kill switch is sensible or not.
Its currently working correctly the idea being if you loose an alternator or your battery gets smashed cos its come loose or a wire shorts out the engine will keep going
And you get to your destination you then inconveniently need to open the lid to shut off the engin. However thats far better than getting stuck at sea cos youve lost an alternator or battery.
If you wire the solenoid permanent live it will likely burn out.
If you want a failsafe shut off the usual way is an external pull to stop cable on the outside of the engine box
Most older diesels were live to kill or cable kill for these reasons its only morre modern engines that are live to run because they generally require voltage to run other systems that are essential for the engine to run.
Your 4lh only needs fuel and air to run so you can lose all electrical power and still get home
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Old 02 November 2018, 15:13   #39
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Thanks for your responses.

Poly - the fail 'safe' made sense to me. I could either hot wire the switch or ignore it entirely and mechanically hold the fuel shut off lever open. It doesn't help however if the power outage is due to some significant electrical calamity because the engine would be off without a way to start it.

HDAV - I'd looked at those valves but as I already have a shut off lever the solenoid seemed the more obvious solution. If I continue down the route I'm currently thinking about, it might be a more elegant solution. Point noted about the diesel being able to run without power being applied to it.

Beamishken - I decided that relying on a switch to make a circuit if you fell overboard seemed more prone to failure than relying on it to break a circuit. I'm not sure if this is a justifiable decision.

The solenoid would be protected against premature failure by the SD85 relay which energises the coil for a couple of seconds, long enough for it to turn the lever on. There is then a low current hold function that keeps the solenoid engaged.

Yours and HDAV's point about the engine running without needing the boats electrics to be operating is a very valid point.

In my system, there is a chain - battery, fuse, switch all of which need to be working (all the time) to keep the engine going. If this chain fails and isn't fixable, you are engineless which depending on circumstances could be catastrophic.

If your system fails, you are unlikely to notice until you next check the kill cord unless you are in a situation where the kill cord operation becomes critical in which case it could be catastrophic.

With my system, the probability of failure is higher but the consequence of failure is likely to be less severe. With your system the probability of failure is lower but the consequence of failure is likely to be more severe.

I'm not sure which is worse and apologies for my mangling of risk categories. I've tried to find any MCA guidance but other than stating a kill cord should be fitted, there isn't any.

I'll keep pondering.

Cheers

Guy
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Old 02 November 2018, 17:14   #40
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Thanks for your responses.



Beamishken - I decided that relying on a switch to make a circuit if you fell overboard seemed more prone to failure than relying on it to break a circuit. I'm not sure if this is a justifiable decision.

The solenoid would be protected against premature failure by the SD85 relay which energises the coil for a couple of seconds, long enough for it to turn the lever on. There is then a low current hold function that keeps the solenoid engaged.

Yours and HDAV's point about the engine running without needing the boats electrics to be operating is a very valid point.

I'll keep pondering.

Cheers

Guy
Using a make to kill switch is exactly what 99% of outboards do to kill their ignition system.
I'm sure the manufacturers carefully considered their systems before they decided this to be the best sytem to use and indeed all manufacturers not just yanmar use this system.
But if you think your system is better than most manufacturers then do it your way
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