Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
 
Old 06 September 2016, 09:26   #1
Member
 
tom_20000's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Sheffield
Boat name: Uncle Ray
Make: Osprey
Length: 6m +
Engine: 150hp
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 241
Intruder 150hp 1995 Compression Possible Overhaul?

Morning all, hopefully the last hurdle in my rebuild!! Had a few issues with the outboard whilst away last week. I've a horrible feeling it's going to need an overhaul but hoping for any pointers before ripping it apart.

Symptoms are:

-Cutting out on idle intermittently
-Slight miss on idle
-Power through rev range but max revs is 4200rpm
Horrendous noise occasionally in startup which I think is the starter solonoid but would happily be corrected.

Compression results and plugs can be seen in the pics below, compression overall is lower than expects but the bottom 2 cylinders especially is poor.

Plugs had some carbon build up, some wondering if it's worth running a decarb through the engine or if it's just simply past that.

Don't know the history of the engine unfortunately.

Any advice appreciated

Was going to take it up to mj marine before I ran the compression test last night, but don't want to do a massive drive only to be a told it needs overhauling.

Thans in advance

Tom
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1473153944675.jpg
Views:	288
Size:	53.0 KB
ID:	115732  
__________________
tom_20000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 September 2016, 09:47   #2
Member
 
tom_20000's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Sheffield
Boat name: Uncle Ray
Make: Osprey
Length: 6m +
Engine: 150hp
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 241
Video

Video of noise
Attached Files
__________________
tom_20000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 September 2016, 12:34   #3
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: bicester
Length: no boat
Engine: outboard only
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 913
looking at your PSI numbers I would say an overhaul is due.Maybe even a rebore if its a merc/mar you can rebore just one cyl,I don't know about other makes.
__________________
uncle al is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 September 2016, 14:26   #4
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Gloucestershire
Boat name: Osprey
Make: Osprey Vipermax
Length: 5m +
Engine: E-tec 300 G2
MMSI: TBC
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,020
Tom, I compression checked that motor last year all the cylinders were at about 100psi. I would recheck. What tool are you using to run the tests.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------
Chris Stevens

Born fiddler
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 September 2016, 14:49   #5
Member
 
tom_20000's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Sheffield
Boat name: Uncle Ray
Make: Osprey
Length: 6m +
Engine: 150hp
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 241
Hi Chris, just a silverline compression tester, nearly new. Dont have a spare one to hand unfortunately.

Tests done with throttle closed, fuel connected but kill cord off. Didnt take all plugs out to complete though, wondering if it's worth re-running it with all the plugs out and then trying a wet test also.

I've bought some Seafoam as there was some carbon build up on the plugs so i'll run that through also.

Starter issue makes it a pain as it turns over then sounds like it jams, so you have to release and then re-turn. The noise is awful so the neighbors arent favoring me at the moment, need to strip the starter off and have a look whats going on there i think. Video hasnt uploaded for some reason, will try again.

Not sure what else the running issues could be, spark seems good across the HT leads, resistance is good across all the coils and leads (cant test under load), i have read stories of power pack breakdown which caused similar revving issues though.


Prop is 19" need to check what pitch it is though.


Cheers
__________________
tom_20000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 September 2016, 14:51   #6
Member
 
tom_20000's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Sheffield
Boat name: Uncle Ray
Make: Osprey
Length: 6m +
Engine: 150hp
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 241
In fact video is showing on my phone but not via laptop :/ is it actually there? lol
__________________
tom_20000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 September 2016, 15:21   #7
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Gloucestershire
Boat name: Osprey
Make: Osprey Vipermax
Length: 5m +
Engine: E-tec 300 G2
MMSI: TBC
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,020
Did you have the throttle wide open when you ran the compression test ? Also were all the plugs removed ?
__________________
---------------------------------------------------
Chris Stevens

Born fiddler
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 September 2016, 15:24   #8
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Gloucestershire
Boat name: Osprey
Make: Osprey Vipermax
Length: 5m +
Engine: E-tec 300 G2
MMSI: TBC
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,020
the noise on the starter is probably the Bendix not disengaging. I would remove and service the starter and lubricate the shaft with some Bendix grease.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------
Chris Stevens

Born fiddler
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06 September 2016, 15:34   #9
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Gloucestershire
Boat name: Osprey
Make: Osprey Vipermax
Length: 5m +
Engine: E-tec 300 G2
MMSI: TBC
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,020
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom_20000 View Post
Prop is 19" need to check what pitch it is though.


Cheers
19" is the pitch BTW the diameter will be around 14".

19" on a 150 on that hull should be on the money. So it sounds like you have to work through a few issues. Things to check are.

- Fuel flow from the tanks is good, i.e. no restrictions and the tanks are ventilated correctly. Does the primer bulb remain firm after running the engine or does it suck in. This is a sure indication of poor fuel flow.
- Spark Plugs are new and gapped correctly.
- Check the throttle butterfly valves to make sure they are opening fully at WOT.
- Check carbs are clean and no debris, might be worth getting these cleaned by your local mechanic with an ultrasonic cleaner.
- Carbs will need balancing if they are stripped so you need to get this done.
- Finally taking the heads of these engine is not difficult and you can then look at the bores to make sure they are smooth.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------
Chris Stevens

Born fiddler
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08 September 2016, 18:56   #10
Member
 
tom_20000's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Sheffield
Boat name: Uncle Ray
Make: Osprey
Length: 6m +
Engine: 150hp
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 241
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris View Post
19" is the pitch BTW the diameter will be around 14".

19" on a 150 on that hull should be on the money. So it sounds like you have to work through a few issues. Things to check are.

- Fuel flow from the tanks is good, i.e. no restrictions and the tanks are ventilated correctly. Does the primer bulb remain firm after running the engine or does it suck in. This is a sure indication of poor fuel flow.
- Spark Plugs are new and gapped correctly.
- Check the throttle butterfly valves to make sure they are opening fully at WOT.
- Check carbs are clean and no debris, might be worth getting these cleaned by your local mechanic with an ultrasonic cleaner.
- Carbs will need balancing if they are stripped so you need to get this done.
- Finally taking the heads of these engine is not difficult and you can then look at the bores to make sure they are smooth.
Cheers Chris, sorry yes the prop is 14 1/2 inch, 19 pitch.

Ran 2 can of sea foam through the engine, and it's kicked out loads of crap, and incidentally my Compression tester spring a leak mid way through testing!!! Really hoping it's just a dodgey tester, I also checked the motor when I bought it and ideas sure all cylinders were around 100 also, so fingers crossed.

As for the Bendix shaft ive no idea yet how to get at it without removing the flywheel cover which I believe disturbs the timing? Have a seloc manually which im slowly working my way through.

Fuel flow seems good, bulb isn't rock solid, but it's not sucking in in the slightest.

Plugs again are new this week and gapped good.

Got someome with a ultrasonic cleaner so may see him aboit getting the carbs cleaned and find someone to balance them.

If the compression is still low once I've got another gauge I'll whip the head off and see what's going on, got a feeling they've been off before though, in the manual it states they're sealed with an O-ring, yet these I can see gasket sealant squashed out around the sides.

Cheers
__________________
tom_20000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 September 2016, 16:38   #11
Member
 
tom_20000's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Sheffield
Boat name: Uncle Ray
Make: Osprey
Length: 6m +
Engine: 150hp
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 241
Re-ran compression, 110-115 on too 4 cylinders, bottom right 70, couldn't get to bottom left (port) due to the gauge fitting g fouling the casing. Gonna strip the head off Tuesday see if there's damage to the cylinder or piston I think. At least too 4 seem good!!
__________________
tom_20000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 September 2016, 10:59   #12
Member
 
tom_20000's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Sheffield
Boat name: Uncle Ray
Make: Osprey
Length: 6m +
Engine: 150hp
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 241
Head removed, found one difference between top cylinders and bottom 2, small lip/ridge on the bottom (6 O'CLock) of the cylinder right at the top (last 5mm). I assume this is the limit of the piston ring.

Some play across the pistons, but it's uniform across them all so i assume this is normal.

Unsure where to go next, thinking of replacing the O-rings and seeing if that makes a difference, failing that i'm guessing rings or cylinder is warped? (will need a bore gauge)

Incidentally most of the small waterways appear to be blocked with salt and calcium build up.

Only other noticeable difference was a large build up of oil in the two bottom cylinders in the ports (exhaust i think, ports closest to centre of engine).

Anyone know much about changing the rings on these, rings appear about £20, but unsure how many more consumables i need to change in the process (bearings/shims etc)?

Tom
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20160913_200921.jpg
Views:	254
Size:	185.6 KB
ID:	115921   Click image for larger version

Name:	20160913_201059.jpg
Views:	230
Size:	162.1 KB
ID:	115922   Click image for larger version

Name:	20160913_202332.jpg
Views:	232
Size:	244.9 KB
ID:	115923   Click image for larger version

Name:	20160913_202337.jpg
Views:	210
Size:	154.6 KB
ID:	115924   Click image for larger version

Name:	20160913_202403.jpg
Views:	254
Size:	180.4 KB
ID:	115925  

Attached Files
__________________
tom_20000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 September 2016, 11:19   #13
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Gloucestershire
Boat name: Osprey
Make: Osprey Vipermax
Length: 5m +
Engine: E-tec 300 G2
MMSI: TBC
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,020
I would be inclined to get run a few cans of seafoam or similar through the engine to try and de-carbon. It could be you have a ring sticking. Put the heads back on and give then engines a few hours of use before going to the extent of stripping them. The bores look OK to me, as long as they are smooth I would avoid any more cost.
__________________
---------------------------------------------------
Chris Stevens

Born fiddler
Chris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 September 2016, 11:38   #14
Member
 
tom_20000's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Sheffield
Boat name: Uncle Ray
Make: Osprey
Length: 6m +
Engine: 150hp
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 241
Will do, I've run 2 cans through and it kicked plenty of sludge out, gonna have to wait until i'm on the water to do it again, neighbours weren't happy! Added it direct to the cylinders before will put the last can through with some fuel i guess. Called Mike at southcoast to see if he's got some o-rings. They were pretty stiff. Parts have broken away when i've taken the head off.
__________________
tom_20000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 September 2016, 19:59   #15
Member
 
tom_20000's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Sheffield
Boat name: Uncle Ray
Make: Osprey
Length: 6m +
Engine: 150hp
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 241
ona side note anyone know where i can get one of these fuses?

AGA-20 | Cartridge Fuse, F, 20A | Cooper Bussmann

AGA-20amp,

its the small one near the starter, 20amp 32v, i cant find them bloody anywhere! Googling has told me they're called AGA-20.
__________________
tom_20000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25 September 2016, 21:23   #16
Member
 
tom_20000's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Sheffield
Boat name: Uncle Ray
Make: Osprey
Length: 6m +
Engine: 150hp
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 241
Quick update as progress has been made incase anyone else has similar problems, cleaned all the pistons and head up, and replaced the O-rings. Compression was this the same 115 top 4, and 60 - 65 on the bottom right. (still cant get into bottom left until i buy a new gauge). I suspected a fault with the ignition system from what i'd read on other sites, so renewed the HT leads and plugs, and found many sites suggesting power pack issues so installed a new CDi Power Pack unit.

Took the boat out today, consistently hit 5200 - 5400 rpm with a top speeds at WOT of 42 knots which i'm pretty pleased with.

Plugs looks good after the run and the cylinders that are low are still fetching plenty of oil through. Looks like i'll need to look at re boring to resolve the compression issue, but overall the performance of the engine is back on par with no stalling issues and the miss has also disappeared.
__________________
tom_20000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 October 2016, 13:30   #17
Member
 
tom_20000's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Sheffield
Boat name: Uncle Ray
Make: Osprey
Length: 6m +
Engine: 150hp
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 241
Help Please! Can anyone recommend
a) a decent machine shop preferably someone who have experience with outboard engines i guess?
b) where i can go/look to source parts (google only seems to return a sea of US sites)? I know i can get genuine pistons and rings from various suppliers at ridiculous costs but are there any aftermarket parts that are cheaper? Lastly the 3 companies i've spoken to so far didnt know where i'd be able to source a new sleeve or aftermarket pistons.

I'm in Sheffield so the closer the better!

Doing the rebuild myself, so only need someone to measure the damage and carry out the machine work.

Cheers
__________________
tom_20000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 October 2016, 13:36   #18
Member
 
tom_20000's Avatar
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Sheffield
Boat name: Uncle Ray
Make: Osprey
Length: 6m +
Engine: 150hp
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 241
Btw, engine is running really well bar the fuel economy, but the low compression on two cylinders isnt giving me the confidence I want on longer trips.

Racked up around 200miles last week at Linnhe
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	1476711175884.jpg
Views:	197
Size:	80.6 KB
ID:	116678   Click image for larger version

Name:	1476711187583.jpg
Views:	337
Size:	87.6 KB
ID:	116679  
__________________
tom_20000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17 October 2016, 14:24   #19
Member
 
Country: UK - England
Town: Abersoch
Boat name: vanishing point
Make: phantom, Ribtec
Length: 6m +
Engine: 200hp
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 467
http://www.riversidepowerboats.co.uk/

Try Steve hutch
__________________
whiskylee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18 October 2016, 09:31   #20
Member
 
Country: UK - Scotland
Town: north ayrshire
Boat name: charlie girl
Make: S/R5.4/regal3760
Length: 10m +
Engine: Suzukidf70 2x6lp 315
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,722
Does it realy need bored? usualy with a 2 stroke as long as it's not scored or badly worn a good hone & set of rings does the trick
__________________
beamishken is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




All times are GMT. The time now is 13:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.