Hydraulic steering choices

[codprawn]

HELP - have to decide on hydraulic or manual steering - have been told the "no feedback" unit will handle a 225 2stroke but after doing a search on ribnet most people prefer hydraulic.

I see Vetus do quite a cost effective solution and most of their stuff is very good.

How many turns lock to lock do people advise? With cars I prefer as little as possible - a car with about 2 turns lock to lock is great to drive.

I notice with the Vetus unit the 150hp version has 2.1 turns whilst the 300hp version has 4.2 - possibly the same unit revalved or geared?

Also the outboard will be on a transom jack with 10" setback - will this cause probs fitting the steering?

[Louise]

Can only recommend what I have direct experience of - Seastar hydraulic!

My dad reckons there are three things you really cannot afford to scrimp on with a car - tyres, brakes and steering - as their operation is essential for safe driving. I reckon the same is true of a boat (but I guess the tyres would be replaced by the hull and the steering acts as a brake too! ).

IIRC you're getting a brand new big boat (8m ish?) - so why cut corners? You're already spending thousands - what difference would a few hundred quid make?

HTH

[Manos]

send you a pm cod

[Orange Beeny]

r u a man or a mouse?

use a tiller!!!

[tim griffin]

Hi Codprawn
there is a interesting article in this months Sportsboat and Rib magazine
it may even be on their website
cheers
Tim

[Matt]

There are 2 issues in hydraulic steering that I can think of:
1) Damage a hydraulic pipe whilst out and you're fecked (Drop an anchor on it or something), a cable will most probably still work, at least enough to get you home, or is capable of being jury rigged
2) The helm units leak back slightly, that means even in a straight line you will gradually be having to turn the wheel.

[Jono]

Originally Posted by MadMat

There are 2 issues in hydraulic steering that I can think of:
1) Damage a hydraulic pipe whilst out and you're fecked (Drop an anchor on it or something), a cable will most probably still work, at least enough to get you home, or is capable of being jury rigged
2) The helm units leak back slightly, that means even in a straight line you will gradually be having to turn the wheel.

Feck me, Nobba... how do you anchor? Hurling yer anchor at the blunt end isn't a recognised way of doing it ya know?...

[Matt]

Clearly, I put my 'ribsters' thinking cap on when writing that. Us 'Ardbooters don't need anchors, cos we never use our boats!

[pmorgan]

Our last RIB was fitted with a 135 Optimax, when we first got it had no feed back cable steering which was admittedly a couple of years old. Then we upgraded to hydraulic steering the boat was transformed, the boat was a pleasure to drive to start with but after the upgrade could take it out all day and still move your arms and shoulders the next day ! I do agree with the downside you mention of the slight drift over time when trying to head dead straight, but in practice I have found it to be only slight and you quickly learn to compensate for it automatically. I have fitted hydraulic steering to our new boat and would thoroughly recommend it. HTH

Good luck with your new boat.

Pete

6'2" 15 stone weakling !

[Jono]

Ask how easy "no feed back" is on a 250 Suzi...... Ian?.. Ian? .. He's begining to look a bit like Popeye these days...

6'2" 18 stone fat boy....

[MeMe]

........no one has mentioned the cost oh hydraulic steering. I have NFB on my 140 but have yet to fully appreciate the pros and cons of the same, however, if someone tells me hydraulic is fab and costs just £200 then whats the poin inquestioning it if it's as good as they say, just buy it. However, I susspect it's rather more than a couple of rounds of drinks so, just how much is it ?

[Searider]

Having just changed boats - well just added one to the fleet - Searider 5.4 still for sale - I have used both cable steering on the Searider and Hydraulic on the Scorpion. The hydraulic is much lighter and easier to use as there is no feedback and more turns lock to lock.

The cable steering on the Avon needed a firm hand and could be quite tiring after a while. However, what I miss is the directness of the cable steering on the Avon. It was about 2 turns lock to lock and when getting airborne you could grab a quarter turn of right hand lock to keep the boat level counteracting the propeller torque.

With the hydraulic steering on the Scorpion I feel a bit more of a passenger and have to let the boat look after itself a bit more - I can't get the lock on and off quick enough to make much of a difference.

While we're talking about hydraulic steering how full should the helm pump reservoir be?

Regards

[Louise]

Originally Posted by MeMe

........no one has mentioned the cost oh hydraulic steering. ... so, just how much is it ?

Have a look here . Looks like Seastar kit is £1000. Not cheap but the best things in life never are...

Searider - IIRC when we refilled the hydraulic system on ours we filled the helm unit right up 'til we couldn't get any more in. I'm sure one of the experts will correct if I'm wrong!

[Jeff]

While we're talking about hydraulic steering how full should the helm pump reservoir be?

Searider -

On mine (which is only a single "unbalanced" piston/ram - Hydraflex) the fluid should be just below the filler plug in the helm reservoir - with the steering turned so that the ram is in the fully retracted position. If you fill it in the extended position it dumps the surplus oil back out through the filler vent !! ....... and guess how I know this ??
Jeff

[Matt]

Bargain, I'm sure.

Originally Posted by Louise

Have a look here . Looks like Seastar kit is £1000. Not cheap but the best things in life never are...

Searider - IIRC when we refilled the hydraulic system on ours we filled the helm unit right up 'til we couldn't get any more in. I'm sure one of the experts will correct if I'm wrong!

[Searider]

Originally Posted by Jeff

While we're talking about hydraulic steering how full should the helm pump reservoir be?

Searider -

On mine (which is only a single "unbalanced" piston/ram - Hydraflex) the fluid should be just below the filler plug in the helm reservoir - with the steering turned so that the ram is in the fully retracted position. If you fill it in the extended position it dumps the surplus oil back out through the filler vent !! ....... and guess how I know this ??
Jeff

Jeff,

Thanks for that - I think I'll put a little more in and see how I go!

Duncan

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by Searider

Having just changed boats - well just added one to the fleet - Searider 5.4 still for sale - I have used both cable steering on the Searider and Hydraulic on the Scorpion. The hydraulic is much lighter and easier to use as there is no feedback and more turns lock to lock.

The cable steering on the Avon needed a firm hand and could be quite tiring after a while. However, what I miss is the directness of the cable steering on the Avon. It was about 2 turns lock to lock and when getting airborne you could grab a quarter turn of right hand lock to keep the boat level counteracting the propeller torque.

With the hydraulic steering on the Scorpion I feel a bit more of a passenger and have to let the boat look after itself a bit more - I can't get the lock on and off quick enough to make much of a difference.
Regards

Brilliant points - what is so good about "no feedback"? - with cars feedback is vital - it is what makes all the difference!!! Try driving something like a caterham or TVR and then an Audi A4 and you will know what iI mean!!!

Whether it's the same with boats not too sure but from your comments I suspect so!!!

[ScottyDog]

I have just been quoted £410 in VAT delivered (Barnet Marine) for a Baystar Compact hydraulic kit, suitable for up to 150HP, the same manufacturer does the Seastar which goes up to over 300HP and it is almost twice the price. The Baystar is very smooth and is 5 turns lock to lock, it can be sped up to 4.2 turns by fitting the larger capacity helm pump from the Seastar range but needs hoses cut to length. There is also a slower, heavy duty helm in the Seastar Plus kit, more durable but the ratio is then 5.7 turns. I tried the 5 turn standard unit at SBS and it was very sweet, just fingertips required. The hoses are overbraided and seem very tough. There are other units but I have seen nothing to beat this at the price. you also receive unbeatable friendly service from Hypromarine the importers. I have the NFB unit on my ProSport and it is very sticky so will chuck it in favour of this baby. Hope this helps.

[avanti]

After having had cable steering on a previous boat with a Suzuki 115hp, and then putting on hydraulic steering later I found the boat being more stable at higher speeds, and also lighter to steer at all speeds.
I think hydraulic is the only option as soon as You have 100hp or more on a RIB.
Currently have a Baystar fitted to my boat which I am satisfied with.

Sean

[codprawn]

Originally Posted by avanti

After having had cable steering on a previous boat with a Suzuki 115hp, and then putting on hydraulic steering later I found the boat being more stable at higher speeds, and also lighter to steer at all speeds.
I think hydraulic is the only option as soon as You have 100hp or more on a RIB.
Currently have a Baystar fitted to my boat which I am satisfied with.

Sean

Seeing as water behaves a lot like air I can quite understand this - hydraulic controls have all but eliminated elevator flutter from aircraft whereas the slightest inbalance could cause probs with cables/rods.

Having said that it can also mask problems that would appear sooner rather than later - ie flutter on old aircraft really easy to feel but on modern systems the pilot may not notice until metal fatigue causes the whole lot to drop off!!!