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Old 22 September 2015, 11:52   #31
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A shame the engine is done, I assume a mid section swap is no go either due to one thing or another?

In order of preference-

1. You pay to transport it all back to seller for full refund.

2. Ask for 500, you put another 500 to it and buy an engine. Sell the box and head on eBay for what you can get, I suspect you would get 3-400 for them both on a good day. Prop is 50 quid and PTT if it has it also worth 200 quid perhaps. There is obvioulsy labour involved in splitting it so if you can't do it then the engine is only worth a couple of hundred quid to someone who will strip it down.

3. Agree with seller to put engine on eBay as it is, be honest about it and they give you the difference to make up 750 quid or so.

It is possible that seller never noticed, of course it is. That doesn't matter though as it was misrepresented whether honest mistake or not.

Hth
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Old 22 September 2015, 12:34   #32
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Originally Posted by dubrus View Post
A shame the engine is done, I assume a mid section swap is no go either due to one thing or another?

In order of preference-

1. You pay to transport it all back to seller for full refund.

2. Ask for 500, you put another 500 to it and buy an engine. Sell the box and head on eBay for what you can get, I suspect you would get 3-400 for them both on a good day. Prop is 50 quid and PTT if it has it also worth 200 quid perhaps. There is obvioulsy labour involved in splitting it so if you can't do it then the engine is only worth a couple of hundred quid to someone who will strip it down.

3. Agree with seller to put engine on eBay as it is, be honest about it and they give you the difference to make up 750 quid or so.

It is possible that seller never noticed, of course it is. That doesn't matter though as it was misrepresented whether honest mistake or not.

Hth
The engine may not be done, but after talking to Davie, to get it fixed you're looking at a up to 500 job and hope that nothing else is wrong with it.
I just don't have the confidence and time to attempt such a job.
Thanks for your suggestions, I like the option of 1 or 2. 3 if need be.

many thanks
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Old 22 September 2015, 13:33   #33
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I'm assuming this is a private sale as you refer to the seller rather than a dealer.

I'd be pragmatic and accept anything reasonable he offers. It's a huge risk buying something unseen and relying on your interpretation of any stated condition.

It has to be an exceptionally watertight case to win a sale of goods claim against a private seller. It would probably in your case take provable written communication where you asked if the outboard had any faults of damage and the seller stated not.

For example a private seller has no obligation to supply something fit for purpose or of satisfactory quality.

The only claim is one of misrepresentation and that has to refer to specifics not generic terms like "goes well" or "good condition".

So if he said "all working as it should" in writing even then it may be hard to bring a case as the fact that it ws capable of starting and using on the water may be deemed to be sufficient for the statement he made.

Also you have no right to a refund of the original or return transport costs as the outfit was offered as collection from the location of sale and it was entirely your choice to purchase at a distance.

I know all this stuff as this year I had to help a relative with a very similar case concerning a 30yr old motorbike sold apparently in good faith and for collection... the buyer chose to pay for a company to transport it and when it arrived defects apparently never notice appeared. The seller made a modest goodwill gesture and the buyer finding no legal case and accepting part responsibility for buying unseen accepted this gesture.
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Old 22 September 2015, 15:05   #34
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You really are at the mercy of the seller here but there is no harm in you setting the tone of the conversation and maybe end up somewhere in the middle in terms of costs to each person.

If you do/can send it back, before you buy anything else post here. someone will either recommend a surveyor or you may get lucky and someone from forum will look at it on your behalf to atleast remove some of the chance of something like this. Obvioulsy they are not responsible for any issues but atleast it is another pair of eyes on it if yours can't travel there.

I have benefited from the above myself with a boat in Southampton and I have looked at an sr5.4 bound for Norway to return the favour.

Let us know how you fair.
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Old 22 September 2015, 15:06   #35
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I'm assuming this is a private sale as you refer to the seller rather than a dealer.

I'd be pragmatic and accept anything reasonable he offers. It's a huge risk buying something unseen and relying on your interpretation of any stated condition.

It has to be an exceptionally watertight case to win a sale of goods claim against a private seller. It would probably in your case take provable written communication where you asked if the outboard had any faults of damage and the seller stated not.

For example a private seller has no obligation to supply something fit for purpose or of satisfactory quality.

The only claim is one of misrepresentation and that has to refer to specifics not generic terms like "goes well" or "good condition".

So if he said "all working as it should" in writing even then it may be hard to bring a case as the fact that it ws capable of starting and using on the water may be deemed to be sufficient for the statement he made.

Also you have no right to a refund of the original or return transport costs as the outfit was offered as collection from the location of sale and it was entirely your choice to purchase at a distance.

I know all this stuff as this year I had to help a relative with a very similar case concerning a 30yr old motorbike sold apparently in good faith and for collection... the buyer chose to pay for a company to transport it and when it arrived defects apparently never notice appeared. The seller made a modest goodwill gesture and the buyer finding no legal case and accepting part responsibility for buying unseen accepted this gesture.
thanks for the reply.

I totally know what you are saying, anything I get back is goodwill.

The latest we are at is I have asked for a partial refund of 500, equal to what it would take to repair, or as a contribution to new outboard whilst selling the damaged one as is on ebay to try and recoup something.
There seems to be a difference in what we both believe the damaged outboard to be worth though, which is understandable.
I say scrap value of 200, as it will need to be sold to someone willing to split it up to make their money on it. It may get more, who knows.
The seller is going to get back to me on what they feel the value of the refund should be with the value in their eyes of the damaged-to-be-scrapped outboard factored in.

In short, if its a 800-900 outboard when fully working, needing a 500 repair on it drastically devalues it, as it is.
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Old 22 September 2015, 15:11   #36
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Originally Posted by dubrus View Post
You really are at the mercy of the seller here but there is no harm in you setting the tone of the conversation and maybe end up somewhere in the middle in terms of costs to each person.

If you do/can send it back, before you buy anything else post here. someone will either recommend a surveyor or you may get lucky and someone from forum will look at it on your behalf to atleast remove some of the chance of something like this. Obvioulsy they are not responsible for any issues but atleast it is another pair of eyes on it if yours can't travel there.

I have benefited from the above myself with a boat in Southampton and I have looked at an sr5.4 bound for Norway to return the favour.

Let us know how you fair.
Thanks for the advice, and yes, i'll keep all informed.
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Old 22 September 2015, 17:35   #37
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Originally Posted by miktek View Post
thanks for the reply.

I totally know what you are saying, anything I get back is goodwill.

The latest we are at is I have asked for a partial refund of 500, equal to what it would take to repair, or as a contribution to new outboard whilst selling the damaged one as is on ebay to try and recoup something.
There seems to be a difference in what we both believe the damaged outboard to be worth though, which is understandable.
I say scrap value of 200, as it will need to be sold to someone willing to split it up to make their money on it. It may get more, who knows.
The seller is going to get back to me on what they feel the value of the refund should be with the value in their eyes of the damaged-to-be-scrapped outboard factored in.

In short, if its a 800-900 outboard when fully working, needing a 500 repair on it drastically devalues it, as it is.

If the engine is running, driving and working in all ways apart from the broken saddle, then its worth a lot more than 200.

Your ad on ebay is very good and very honest, but to get the most money at this time of year it needs to be an auction with a low start.

If you are happy with the boat, sell the engine as spares or repair with an honest appraisal, i dont think you even need to say the word 'scrap', because it isnt.

Although it would cost 500 to have it fixed by a professional, there are a lot of people who could do it for significantly less for themselves. My guess is a 99p start with a video of it running and it will go for 4-500 as long as you offer delivery (60 ish on a pallet)
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Old 22 September 2015, 19:39   #38
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I see from your advert it has PTT. You have a decent value there then.

I would just take the engine off and sell it as is. Show a video of it going in and out of gear and see what happens.

If you don't know how to get the engine off or on then bring it to me, doddle.
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Old 23 September 2015, 10:57   #39
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If the engine is running, driving and working in all ways apart from the broken saddle, then its worth a lot more than 200.

Your ad on ebay is very good and very honest, but to get the most money at this time of year it needs to be an auction with a low start.

If you are happy with the boat, sell the engine as spares or repair with an honest appraisal, i dont think you even need to say the word 'scrap', because it isnt.

Although it would cost 500 to have it fixed by a professional, there are a lot of people who could do it for significantly less for themselves. My guess is a 99p start with a video of it running and it will go for 4-500 as long as you offer delivery (60 ish on a pallet)

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubrus View Post
I see from your advert it has PTT. You have a decent value there then.

I would just take the engine off and sell it as is. Show a video of it going in and out of gear and see what happens.

If you don't know how to get the engine off or on then bring it to me, doddle.
Thanks very much for these pointers.

The reason I've given the engine such a low value is because its currently bolted on the back of the rib. And of course, if removed (which now seems the most likely option) it would fare reasonably well on ebay. I may take you up on the offer of help Dubrus.
I'm taking the whole rig up to Loch Lomond on Sunday for a potter about, not far out at all, plus taking my trusty 3.5hp aux with me.

I've had some interest in the whole set up for sale on ebay, one offer of 1000 for the lot, which is just a bit too much of a hit to take (paid 1750).

Got some flush muffs today (lost my other set) and will be making a video later, will also add to the advert that I may consider splitting the package (would have to be engine sold first as have nowhere to store it.)
One question on this, is it OK to select gears when using just flush muffs, or will this cause damage?

The seller got back to me today. He was, like some on here, confused as to why I valued the engine at such a low price. As I've explained, it's to do with the fact it's currently on the back of the rib going nowhere.
He has offered me a small refund of 107 to cover the cost of the part needed, which I'll have no option but to accept. He blew my request for 500 back out the water.
He believes that even if I viewed the engine in person I wouldn't have noticed it, and it's only when I've gone over it with a fine tooth comb the next day I've spotted the break.
Fact is, it was only once the steering was centred (from hard right) and the power tilt and trim turned on and lowered that the damage came into full view. Within literally 10 seconds of the engine being lowered.

stay tuned

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Old 23 September 2015, 11:02   #40
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Yes you can put it in gear with muffs but don't rev it too much.

Do not accept 107, start negotiations now.

107 quid is a royal piss take.
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