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Old 23 August 2015, 07:31   #31
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I would agree with Honda. Sadly but a 10 year old outboard is gonna give issues.. Unleaded fuel creates condensation and modern engines do not like being stood over a period, it was likely due to lack of use and limited or no fogging activity that the bearing or spacer collected corrosion and just got worse from there until it got so loose it gave up doing its job.
I'm sure that Honda specify that If the engine is going to be laid up due to inactivity that the Oil and filter must be changed prior to laying up.. of coarse I would run it up to operating temp first before its turned off.

Since adding ethanol into fuel to increase the octane rating,it doesn't help with corrosion situation with fuel system materials... Ethanol may have the dubious virtue of being a renewable energy source (which is good news if the machine using it has been specifically designed to use this fuel) but unfortunately a less desirable quality of the fuel is its corrosive nature. This is partly due to the high oxygen content. Oxygen is a very active element…in fact it reacts with almost everything. It is oxygen that turns iron into rust amongst other things. In liquid form these reactions are accelerated (consider how much quicker metals corrode in water compared to the air) and when mixed with hydro-carbon fuel, unexpected issues have been identified. Ethanol is also acidic, and this acid damages many materials inside engines
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Old 23 August 2015, 11:31   #32
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To the OP, it took several direct requests before you finally admitted the age of the engine, so I think deep down you knew from the start you were onto a loser. Good luck with Honda & I genuinely hope that you get a result, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I think that you are extremely nave if you think you're going to get a new engine.
Just the thoughts of the man on the Clapham omnibus.
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Old 23 August 2015, 13:00   #33
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While I appreciate the distress that failure of an expensive low hours mechanical device can cause sadly I have to err on the side of taking any crumbs Honda offer (if any) and moving on.

There are two sides to this... mechanical/engineering and financial/commercial.

From the mechanical side it is a fact that time elapsed as well as run time can be important and from that perspective you have to accept as the years pile on... regardless of hours run... warranty help is less likely and faults more likely.

There are various theories as to why this failure happens but the two most frequently stated are that the vertical crank imposes extra loads on the thrust washer (compared to a horizontal crank on a car where the thrust washer really is only loaded briefly when the clutch is pushed in).... and secondly there could be an issue from build where incorrect cleaning after the block was machined has left some swarf in place which damages the thrust washer.

From my experience of engines I'd say this swarf folks find is the initial stages of damage after the thrust washer clearance has opened up and parts which should be held clear of each other are starting to rub.

From the financial perspective you have to accept that if Honda will offer a 5yr warranty and you want to run an engine with no costs above that of servicing then you trade in, buy new every 5yrs and have full dealer servicing.

My way of looking at it is if you make the choice to keep an older motor on a financial basis then take the repair implications on the chin.
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Old 23 August 2015, 13:04   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pikey Dave View Post
To the OP, it took several direct requests before you finally admitted the age of the engine, so I think deep down you knew from the start you were onto a loser. Good luck with Honda & I genuinely hope that you get a result, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I think that you are extremely nave if you think you're going to get a new engine.
Just the thoughts of the man on the Clapham omnibus.
WTF? You act like I was trying to hide the engine age. I am gonads to the wall and probably missed other "requests", too. Who do you think I am? Hillary Clinton? Sheeez. I still am not concerned about the age, and never have been, but am about the WEAR, like I stated. I think I said that before. I don't think Honda owes me a new engine, either; that would be ridiculous. However, them not owning the issue and giving a carte blance "out of warranty" without any offer of any help rubs me wrong. They could at least do one or the other, and SOME kind of assistance would be nice. I fully realize the age/warranty issue because that is the accepted norm and is understandable in most cases, which I've already elaborated on. What we need is a paradigm shift in our thinking of what constitutes "old". Cheers. I am done w/ this now. I appreciate the input but will encourage anyone to fight when they feel their cause is just, despite the popular and accepted norm. You either fight, or you roll over and pee on yourself like a puppy.
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Old 23 August 2015, 13:25   #35
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Old 23 August 2015, 14:39   #36
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Well do come back and tell us when Honda changes their mind.
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Old 23 August 2015, 15:39   #37
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I could understand the thrust washers in a car going at this age with clutch being dumped every 5 mins . But not an outboard theres minimal thrust movement on a marine engine . There no clutch being depressed in out moving the crank Back an forth . I've rebuilt marine Diesels engine with over 5000 hrs the crank end float ( Back an forth movement) wear was not even 4 thou . My 2 pennies worth is defiantly a design fault .
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Old 23 August 2015, 15:41   #38
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Haha ace

Honda may need to invest in body guards soon as sounds like sh*t gonna go off
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Old 23 August 2015, 16:05   #39
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Honda just lost a big fan

I think the advice to call or write politely is good advise. You don't have much to stand on but if you work with what you got they may feel like helping. Going in adversarial from the get go is only going to make Honda defensive and not want to help.

Warranties clearly state time or usage. It sucks but that's what the lawyers all agreed on. You are the outliner where you have an old barely used engine. Hence the ask nicely.

The biggest issue is they can't give you what you need for less. The expense is all labor, somebody has to pay the mechanic.

I once got a PC computer manufacturer to refund an order several months after purchase because the computers just didn't work. They had no legal obligation to do it and didn't care if I remained a customer. I politely harassed them until they gave in. Ended up talking to the North American VP of whatever for NEC I think. Way back when.

With the history of problems in the 250 and enough anecdotal evidence on the 150 you might be able to win a lawsuit against them to warranty them but even then they have time and money on their side.

Jason
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Old 23 August 2015, 16:36   #40
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>>>But not an outboard theres minimal thrust movement on a marine engine .

Seems the problem with this design was the weight of the vertical crankshaft and its components putting a continual load on the thrust bearing... you do not get this with horizontal cranks in cars.
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