Evinrude Etec 90 2007 not starting

ekim · 30 December 2007, 09:29

Hi

Having problems starting the above engine. Starter motor is working but engine refuses to start. Checked fuel lines, battery etc and all is OK.

Two days ago I started engine and left it at idle for approx 20 mins and then turned if off. Could it be fouled plugs?

Any comments much appreciated.

Mike

David G · 30 December 2007, 09:32

Is there a problem with the emergency killswitch assembly/cord attachment?

Orve

PeterR · 30 December 2007, 16:12

Its unlightly to be that ioled up on all four .Is the engine run in yet as for the first 10 hrs i think they inject double the amount of oil.I do have a new set of plugs in the garage that i will be selling if you ever want them.Is it still under warenty i see you said its 2007.It would have i think an electric choke so you must not use the throttle lever to start.If you remove the hood and turn the key but not turn it over you should here the whine(noise)it will make.If after being sure the cut off switch isnt faulty you can remove air intake cover and look to see if the butterfly flaps are covering the ports for choke position.Other than that i cannot think of anything else that wont start to effect any warrenty dont remove the plugs unless you know what your doing

Nos4r2 · 30 December 2007, 18:37

Start at the beginning. Check it's got a spark. Then make sure that fuel is getting to it OK-is the primer bulb hard?

Chris · 30 December 2007, 19:49

If you have checked the obvious then take it back to the dealer don't take the plugs out unless you know how to index them when putting them back in again.

Chris

Limey Linda · 30 December 2007, 20:14

This may sound stupid/ obvious but: I note from the profile "no boat" so did you let it run for 20 mins. with no water supply?

ian parkes · 30 December 2007, 22:02

Whats the story about indexing plugs ??
its a triple not a four and Iam certain there is no choke butterfly as its fuel injection .

Take a plug out and see if its oiled up , do them one at a time then no problem of getting the leads mixed up .

Did you use the fast idel lever to start and run it . The dealer told me that lever should never be used unless you want to winterise the engine . Apparantly some owners have been used to starting other motors by opening the fast idle lever . That gives the ecu the idea you are about to winterise the motor and starts injecting extra oil.
Chances are its fouled the plugs .
Also iam told they don't like the cheaper oil at low temperatures and warning lights and limp home mode gets activated . Change to the posh oil and no problems .

Chris · 30 December 2007, 23:08

Ian, when you screw the plugs in each one must be tightened so that the electrode of the plug is in the right position. I think the way its done is to mark the plug with some tipex so you know when its in the right position.

An Etec should never need the fast idle or the choke to start. They are electronically controlled and as such should start first turn of the key even when cold. If its not starting and you have ruled out fuel blockages or kill cord problems then I would take it to a dealer.

Chris

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian parkes

Whats the story about indexing plugs ??
its a triple not a four and Iam certain there is no choke butterfly as its fuel injection .

Take a plug out and see if its oiled up , do them one at a time then no problem of getting the leads mixed up .

Did you use the fast idel lever to start and run it . The dealer told me that lever should never be used unless you want to winterise the engine . Apparantly some owners have been used to starting other motors by opening the fast idle lever . That gives the ecu the idea you are about to winterise the motor and starts injecting extra oil.
Chances are its fouled the plugs .
Also iam told they don't like the cheaper oil at low temperatures and warning lights and limp home mode gets activated . Change to the posh oil and no problems .

ian parkes · 31 December 2007, 18:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

Ian, when you screw the plugs in each one must be tightened so that the electrode of the plug is in the right position. I think the way its done is to mark the plug with some tipex so you know when its in the right position.

Chris

Never heard of that Chris nothing in the manual Iam sure . I know the injectors are indexed to each cylinder and have thier own ID code but plugs .

Iam not saying you are wrong but where did the info come from ?
Surely you stand a veru good chance of overtightening the plug trying to get it rotated in the right direction . And if thats the case why didn't they use a multi electrode plug as the plugs used are fairly ordinary.

PeterR · 31 December 2007, 18:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian parkes

Never heard of that Chris nothing in the manual Iam sure . I know the injectors are indexed to each cylinder and have thier own ID code but plugs .

Iam not saying you are wrong but where did the info come from ?
Surely you stand a veru good chance of overtightening the plug trying to get it rotated in the right direction . And if thats the case why didn't they use a multi electrode plug as the plugs used are fairly ordinary.

Hi Ian he is corect the electroed has to be between 1 and 3 oclock in relation to the injector and that is why you should,nt touch them unless you know what you are doing.It is very different to the older technology user freindly engines {carb)

mdt · 31 December 2007, 19:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian parkes

Surely you stand a veru good chance of overtightening the plug trying to get it rotated in the right direction .

apparantly you buy enough plugs and swap them about untill you get a good fit in each hole... and then take the ones back that did not work out. did this last time and it all worked out fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian parkes

And if thats the case why didn't they use a multi electrode plug as the plugs used are fairly ordinary.

apparantly you are trying to use the electrode to sheld the rest of the plug from the jet of injected fule.

I am not convinced of this but have been told that you will have a lumpy tick-over if you don't do this, as I said not too convinced that the angle of a plug can make that sort of diffrence but for once did as I was told.

ian parkes · 31 December 2007, 21:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdt

apparantly you buy enough plugs and swap them about untill you get a good fit in each hole... and then take the ones back that did not work out. did this last time and it all worked out fine.

apparantly you are trying to use the electrode to sheld the rest of the plug from the jet of injected fule.

I am not convinced of this but have been told that you will have a lumpy tick-over if you don't do this, as I said not too convinced that the angle of a plug can make that sort of diffrence but for once did as I was told.

Sounds like rubbish to me . The fuel in any engine is mixed with air and atomised well before it reaches the plug . Most petrol injection engines dump the fuel in the inlet tract before the valve or port is opened so it gets mixed with the incoming air
leaving the plugs to dealer isn't really much good if you should need to change them at sea .
Removing one at a time and replacing it in the same cylinder will change nothing even if they are indexed unless you are a ham fisted idiot who torques plugs up like wheel nuts .
I would still like to know where this info is coming from , is it what dealers are telling people ?

Daveboy 71 · 31 December 2007, 21:51

Ian,
I am no etec or other such DI technology expert, however, from what I do understand it is fair to say they differ significantly from convention 4-stroke engines. They do not have inlet valves, cam shafts, exhaust valves.... The injectors directly charge the cylinders on each cycle and apply an atomised "spray" direct to the plug anodes for almost simultaneous ignition. I cannot comment re. previous discussion about the direction of the plugs, however, timing is critical for combustion in an etec (even more so than for a conventional 4-stroke). For example, at 5K revs the etec injectors are having to charge each cyclinder at a rate > than a 4-stroke running at 10K revs!! Furthermore, the charge "atomised fuel cloud" and ignition timing changes depending upon the state of the engine eg. tick-over vs wot. I guess the bottom line here is not to jump in and start playing around with the plugs unless you are clear from a dealer that this is okay. Chris is correct.....if the obvious have been ruled out then it is probably a trip to the dealer.

Hope this helps.

Dave

PS. If you were unfortunate enough to need new spark plugs whilst at sea then it is fair to say you may have to get on the VHF and ask for a tow.........how many out there carry spare spark plugs??

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian parkes

Sounds like rubbish to me . The fuel in any engine is mixed with air and atomised well before it reaches the plug . Most petrol injection engines dump the fuel in the inlet tract before the valve or port is opened so it gets mixed with the incoming air
leaving the plugs to dealer isn't really much good if you should need to change them at sea .
Removing one at a time and replacing it in the same cylinder will change nothing even if they are indexed unless you are a ham fisted idiot who torques plugs up like wheel nuts .
I would still like to know where this info is coming from , is it what dealers are telling people ?

ian parkes · 31 December 2007, 23:56

Dave all you are describiong is the basic difference between a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke
The etec is a 2 stroke ,
Ignition timing changes on all engines as the revs rise there is nothing new there .

Chris · 01 January 2008, 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian parkes

Dave all you are describiong is the basic difference between a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke
The etec is a 2 stroke ,
Ignition timing changes on all engines as the revs rise there is nothing new there .

Ian do as you wish

on an engine with a 3 yr warranty I will let the dealer sort my problems out.

Chris

Chris · 01 January 2008, 07:56

http://forum.theoutboardwizard.com/t...ost?id=1493920

Nos4r2 · 01 January 2008, 10:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by ian parkes

Sounds like rubbish to me . The fuel in any engine is mixed with air and atomised well before it reaches the plug . Most petrol injection engines dump the fuel in the inlet tract before the valve or port is opened so it gets mixed with the incoming air
leaving the plugs to dealer isn't really much good if you should need to change them at sea .
Removing one at a time and replacing it in the same cylinder will change nothing even if they are indexed unless you are a ham fisted idiot who torques plugs up like wheel nuts .
I would still like to know where this info is coming from , is it what dealers are telling people ?

Actually, in an etec or DI/HPDI engine, the fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber rather than doing the usual-carb/inlet tract-crankcase-combustion chamber route that 2 strokes use.
I suspect that indexing is to help promote the correct distribution of the atomised fuel. At the pressures used for direct injection even a small irregularity (such as a -ve electrode) will make quite a difference to swirl in a combustion chamber.

Incidentally, once you remove a plug, the compression washer being squashed will mean that it may well not seal properly a 2nd time in the same position.

ian parkes · 01 January 2008, 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Actually, in an etec or DI/HPDI engine, the fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber rather than doing the usual-carb/inlet tract-crankcase-combustion chamber route that 2 strokes use.
I suspect that indexing is to help promote the correct distribution of the atomised fuel. At the pressures used for direct injection even a small irregularity (such as a -ve electrode) will make quite a difference to swirl in a combustion chamber.

Incidentally, once you remove a plug, the compression washer being squashed will mean that it may well not seal properly a 2nd time in the same position.

Ok Mat I understand the concerns here but it would help if people could understand the reason and be able to take a plug out to check its condition .
All the plugs have a black line in the porcelain , I had wondered the reason for that . If you look at the plugs you can see the line without even removing the cap. they all do sit between 1 and 3 oclock in relation to the injector .

I understand what you mean about the washer being compressed and hence when refitted the plug may need to turn in a bit more , surely thats the reason we have 1to3 oclock to play with .

Knowing this there is no reason why the plugs can't be removed and refitted one at a time .
This thread started with someone with a non start problem , which we thought was probably just fouled plugs and that has to be able to be sorted without a trip to a dealer or calling for help.

where anything is different to the norm manufacturers always seem to say dealer service only , i feel in this case it could be simply explained with a short paragraph in the manual .

Nos4r2 · 01 January 2008, 16:26

Couldn't agree more!

DM · 06 January 2008, 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by ekim

Two days ago I started engine and left it at idle for approx 20 mins

Theres been a few cases of this with Etecs. They shouldn't be left on tickover in neutral for long periods and they shouldn't be revved above 1200rpm in neutral ever.

The brain shuts the engine down and the only way to restart it is after fault code clearance with a dealer computer. I did have the software on a palmtop to do this and it's supposed to be a retail item but you'll be lucky if a dealer will sell it to you.