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Old 31 December 2007, 15:02   #11
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Originally Posted by ian parkes View Post
Surely you stand a veru good chance of overtightening the plug trying to get it rotated in the right direction .
apparantly you buy enough plugs and swap them about untill you get a good fit in each hole... and then take the ones back that did not work out. did this last time and it all worked out fine.


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And if thats the case why didn't they use a multi electrode plug as the plugs used are fairly ordinary.
apparantly you are trying to use the electrode to sheld the rest of the plug from the jet of injected fule.

I am not convinced of this but have been told that you will have a lumpy tick-over if you don't do this, as I said not too convinced that the angle of a plug can make that sort of diffrence but for once did as I was told.
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Old 31 December 2007, 17:06   #12
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Originally Posted by mdt View Post
apparantly you buy enough plugs and swap them about untill you get a good fit in each hole... and then take the ones back that did not work out. did this last time and it all worked out fine.


apparantly you are trying to use the electrode to sheld the rest of the plug from the jet of injected fule.

I am not convinced of this but have been told that you will have a lumpy tick-over if you don't do this, as I said not too convinced that the angle of a plug can make that sort of diffrence but for once did as I was told.

Sounds like rubbish to me . The fuel in any engine is mixed with air and atomised well before it reaches the plug . Most petrol injection engines dump the fuel in the inlet tract before the valve or port is opened so it gets mixed with the incoming air
leaving the plugs to dealer isn't really much good if you should need to change them at sea .
Removing one at a time and replacing it in the same cylinder will change nothing even if they are indexed unless you are a ham fisted idiot who torques plugs up like wheel nuts .
I would still like to know where this info is coming from , is it what dealers are telling people ?
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Old 31 December 2007, 17:51   #13
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Ian,
I am no etec or other such DI technology expert, however, from what I do understand it is fair to say they differ significantly from convention 4-stroke engines. They do not have inlet valves, cam shafts, exhaust valves.... The injectors directly charge the cylinders on each cycle and apply an atomised "spray" direct to the plug anodes for almost simultaneous ignition. I cannot comment re. previous discussion about the direction of the plugs, however, timing is critical for combustion in an etec (even more so than for a conventional 4-stroke). For example, at 5K revs the etec injectors are having to charge each cyclinder at a rate > than a 4-stroke running at 10K revs!! Furthermore, the charge "atomised fuel cloud" and ignition timing changes depending upon the state of the engine eg. tick-over vs wot. I guess the bottom line here is not to jump in and start playing around with the plugs unless you are clear from a dealer that this is okay. Chris is correct.....if the obvious have been ruled out then it is probably a trip to the dealer.

Hope this helps.

Dave

PS. If you were unfortunate enough to need new spark plugs whilst at sea then it is fair to say you may have to get on the VHF and ask for a tow.........how many out there carry spare spark plugs??


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Originally Posted by ian parkes View Post
Sounds like rubbish to me . The fuel in any engine is mixed with air and atomised well before it reaches the plug . Most petrol injection engines dump the fuel in the inlet tract before the valve or port is opened so it gets mixed with the incoming air
leaving the plugs to dealer isn't really much good if you should need to change them at sea .
Removing one at a time and replacing it in the same cylinder will change nothing even if they are indexed unless you are a ham fisted idiot who torques plugs up like wheel nuts .
I would still like to know where this info is coming from , is it what dealers are telling people ?
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Old 31 December 2007, 19:56   #14
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Dave all you are describiong is the basic difference between a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke
The etec is a 2 stroke ,
Ignition timing changes on all engines as the revs rise there is nothing new there .
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Old 31 December 2007, 20:55   #15
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Originally Posted by ian parkes View Post
Dave all you are describiong is the basic difference between a 2 stroke and a 4 stroke
The etec is a 2 stroke ,
Ignition timing changes on all engines as the revs rise there is nothing new there .
Ian do as you wish on an engine with a 3 yr warranty I will let the dealer sort my problems out.

Chris
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Old 01 January 2008, 03:56   #16
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Old 01 January 2008, 06:49   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ian parkes View Post
Sounds like rubbish to me . The fuel in any engine is mixed with air and atomised well before it reaches the plug . Most petrol injection engines dump the fuel in the inlet tract before the valve or port is opened so it gets mixed with the incoming air
leaving the plugs to dealer isn't really much good if you should need to change them at sea .
Removing one at a time and replacing it in the same cylinder will change nothing even if they are indexed unless you are a ham fisted idiot who torques plugs up like wheel nuts .
I would still like to know where this info is coming from , is it what dealers are telling people ?
Actually, in an etec or DI/HPDI engine, the fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber rather than doing the usual-carb/inlet tract-crankcase-combustion chamber route that 2 strokes use.
I suspect that indexing is to help promote the correct distribution of the atomised fuel. At the pressures used for direct injection even a small irregularity (such as a -ve electrode) will make quite a difference to swirl in a combustion chamber.


Incidentally, once you remove a plug, the compression washer being squashed will mean that it may well not seal properly a 2nd time in the same position.
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Old 01 January 2008, 11:37   #18
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Actually, in an etec or DI/HPDI engine, the fuel is injected directly into the combustion chamber rather than doing the usual-carb/inlet tract-crankcase-combustion chamber route that 2 strokes use.
I suspect that indexing is to help promote the correct distribution of the atomised fuel. At the pressures used for direct injection even a small irregularity (such as a -ve electrode) will make quite a difference to swirl in a combustion chamber.


Incidentally, once you remove a plug, the compression washer being squashed will mean that it may well not seal properly a 2nd time in the same position.

Ok Mat I understand the concerns here but it would help if people could understand the reason and be able to take a plug out to check its condition .
All the plugs have a black line in the porcelain , I had wondered the reason for that . If you look at the plugs you can see the line without even removing the cap. they all do sit between 1 and 3 oclock in relation to the injector .

I understand what you mean about the washer being compressed and hence when refitted the plug may need to turn in a bit more , surely thats the reason we have 1to3 oclock to play with .

Knowing this there is no reason why the plugs can't be removed and refitted one at a time .
This thread started with someone with a non start problem , which we thought was probably just fouled plugs and that has to be able to be sorted without a trip to a dealer or calling for help.

where anything is different to the norm manufacturers always seem to say dealer service only , i feel in this case it could be simply explained with a short paragraph in the manual .
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Old 01 January 2008, 12:26   #19
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Couldn't agree more!
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Old 06 January 2008, 10:34   #20
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Two days ago I started engine and left it at idle for approx 20 mins
Theres been a few cases of this with Etecs. They shouldn't be left on tickover in neutral for long periods and they shouldn't be revved above 1200rpm in neutral ever.

The brain shuts the engine down and the only way to restart it is after fault code clearance with a dealer computer. I did have the software on a palmtop to do this and it's supposed to be a retail item but you'll be lucky if a dealer will sell it to you.
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