Boat mechanic certification... and accountability!

tango · 09 March 2004, 09:37

Hello,

I live in Greece where in the last few months the local Boat Mechanics Union has lobbied the Govt to make the fitting and servicing of outboard engines by owners illegal.
Prices will of course be fixed by the union and if you are caught at sea without the relevant paperwork you will be facing big fines.
I consider this idea preposterous in itself and to make it worse there will be no accountability of the mechanic if you happen to have an engine failure at sea...!

In addition, they (the Union) make mention of their "certified members" as if there is a certification agency in Greece...
Most (but, to be fair, not all) are not even certified by the manufacturers.

Can anyone please fill me in on the UK law concerning the above?
Are you allowed to fit/service your engines on your own?
Is there an MOT on small powerboats?
And are mechanics held accountable for their work in case of failure at sea?

Please your reply must be valid since I intend to bring the matter up the Greek political food chain.

Thank you

Odysseas Tsagaris

Richard B · 09 March 2004, 10:07

Hi Odysseas,

This proposal from the Greek Boat Mechanics Union sounds outrageous - or is there a problem with poor fitting and serviceing by owners in Greece?

In the UK we have very little regulation. Many people fit and servrice their own engines, although I would guess that most choose a professional fitter/repairer, particularly for larger engines. No small boat MOT. I think that boats over 13m are more regulated as they are classed as "commercial". As for accountability, I don't think there's not any "system" but there's always word of mouth, and forums such as RIB.net can be useful for recommending good servicing agents.

Dirk Diggler · 09 March 2004, 11:32

Sounds like a job for Manos!

tango · 09 March 2004, 11:46

Wow that was quick...

Thanks for your reply,

What happens here is some small craft owners with older carburetted engines usually service their engines themselves.

People tend to send their engines to the mechs if they are modern electronic engines and/or if damages have occured.

The majority of pleasure craft owners, with modern boats already use manufacturer approved mechs to service their engines. By choice not by force.

The problem with these clowns (the BMU) is they want to put a legislative lid on us so we HAVE to pay them their fees, year in year out. For nothing.
Also...
Boat manufacturers/retailers will be required to call the BMU to fit their engines
and
I will have to get a service certificate from the BMU to put my boat to sea etc..
and if my engine breaks down in mid sea..... no one is responsible!!!
oh my - oh my!

I need weapons to fight this!
Help

Manos · 09 March 2004, 17:40

May be the people who thought of that incredible notion were with the PASOK (the so called socialist X Government). Something else to take money from the people and put it in the fat pockets of the politicians. Remember the introduction of the liferaft on a RIB?
Since these waterlogged heads are NOT in power any more (THANK GOODNESS FOR THAT!!) I do not think that the people in the new govermenet will do such a thing.
After all the New Democracy party Government has MPs who have as a hobby the RIBs, diving etc and know about these things as much (if not more) than we do.
However, I think that this worths investigating a bit more (just in case)

PS Nice photo Odyssea by the way. Is it Ionian? Looks like it to me

tue · 09 March 2004, 17:46

As a Mariner service engineer we get an engineers passport which is stamped up whenever we do a course. I believe these were brought out because they were planning on bringing in regulations, by which only engineers with said passports can work on the engines. Maybe Greece is bringing in these new regulations.

Manos · 09 March 2004, 17:58

Quote:

Originally posted by tue
Maybe Greece is bringing in these new regulations.

Tue probably you are not aware but Greece (unfortunately) does not have any regulations. Ministers embesel funds, pass unlawfull laws, steel money, defraud people etc and nothing happens, they do not go to jail, do not resign and life just goes on. That was during the X Government time. May be will change now.
Hopwever, I do not think that such a notion would get through. If say one has to take his engine to a certified engineer for servicing and cannot do it by himself, is the engineer's work guranteed?
If it is and if the engine brakes would the engineer go and pick up the boat free of charge? I don't think so.
Engines (at least 2-stroke) are simple enough and I do not think an engineer is needed for servicing it.
May be 4-strokes??

But I think this will NEVER HAPPEN unless someone is making money allong the way.

wavelength · 09 March 2004, 22:21

I can see the "passport" as a neccessary piece of paper to satisfy and audit under ISO quality systems so that a company can provide QA proven services and also service under warranty period, but I doubt there would be legislation in the uk to require it. It would open a whole can of worms within every trade you could think off. Cowboy builders etc etc would surely be first on a legslation prgramme and that hasn't happened yet despite all sorts of half baked voluntary approval schemes.
Cowboys in every trade of course , inc marine servicing. We used to have one with whome we lost count of the number of casualty services that were made to engines that had broken down after he had serviced them, although they had run fine for years before he got his mitts on them! Doubt he had, or would ever get a manufacturer's passport.

tango · 10 March 2004, 07:07

I will post the text of the proposed regulation as soon as I get my hands on it.

Please bear in mind that this post concerns GREEK law and is not UK related.

But if there is an EC directive in the pot concerning this issue, I do not know of it.

Yes Mano, it is my favorite Ionian island
Ithaca

but the photo below is.....not!

Manos · 10 March 2004, 07:23

Nice place Odyssea... and also very nice photo!! Very green and flat. I see you like the Ionian better than the Aegean. I am an Aegean man my self

A bit bumpier than the Ionian at times but fun.

Regarding this new proposal for MOTs (short of) on outboard engines it will be good to see what it actually is about. See what it says. I can't believe is an EU directive, unless they all gone completely mad.
If it has come from the EU then it will be a huge oposition to this notion from many countries since all will have to adopt it. How to you regulate such a ting and what safegurds one has as to the relaibility of the mechanic.
However, if is a Greek thing may be it was thought (as I said previously) by someone form the X governement to give the Greek nationals a bigger PA......SOK. Good job they went away

jwalker · 10 March 2004, 10:07

There is a recent EU directive which I know applies to the motor industry and I expect this applies to other sectors as well. It is no longer necessary to have a new vehicle serviced at the main dealer network for the purpose of warranty. Though, I'm not sure whether the alternative establishment has to be approved by that particular vehicle manufacturer. I believe this was intended to open up the market and remove the hold the vehicle networks had over the public. This would seem to be the opposite of the greek proposal.

Manos · 10 March 2004, 10:15

Quote:

Originally posted by jwalker
.... this would seem to be the opposite of the greek proposal.

I think that this Greek proposal will be very difficult to go ahead as it contravenes with the known EU directives.
As I said it probably was a thought from some idiots in the Greek X-Government to get some more votes in.

tango · 10 March 2004, 10:48

I agree. The only thing these so called socialists did well, was lining their pockets and promoting their "boys" to high paying positions without any qualifications.

Ergo legislation like the 6 person liferaft, double 800mm lifesaver and the 3mile limit etc which must have definitely come out of such a grockels head.

And all these items plus a multitude of presonal lifesaving devices (c.c. +1) and other required utility and safety stuff are supposed to fit in a RIB.
We may have the best waters in the Med but, by Jove, our legislators suck.

I only hope that our new Govt will be better.
I voted for them and expect them to be.

Mano the last photo is Fokianos, on the Peloponese opposite Spetses.

Check this RIB (well almost) out! Nothing like a little bit of overkill!

Manos · 10 March 2004, 12:15

good 'Hover RIB' for the jungle I'll say Odyssea.

Going back to the potential legislation I recon it will never pass.

When I was in Greece last and heard all the scandals with the so called Socialist government minister trying to pass a law in the parliament at 12 o'clock at night, the Dean of the University of Crete (who also wanted to run for MP for PASOK) cultivating for a large number of years a hashish 2 acre plantation next to the main building of the university. The plantation was also watered and looked after by the university with complicated irrigation equipment.
These two guys were still free and nothing was going to happen to them. So it seemed.
So I thought that who ever voted for PASOK in these elections he would have either been mad, stupid or was involved in these short of games too.

barbarossa · 11 March 2004, 13:01

Hi Odissea
I am very happy to meat you again!
Remember last summer on Atoko island in front oh Ithaka ?
Yuo know my english is bad .
What you say is illegal for me , everibody can repair an engine and only government office can do a controll every 3 /5 year.
In Swiss every 3 years you must do a control but everybody can repair your engine and not a lobbie( it seems monopolio).

The power of net, i have meat you again.
I have talk to Mauro Zamuner about your boat and he remain enjoed.

Can you post a foto of the back of your rib ?

Manos · 11 March 2004, 13:17

Ciao Luigi

Il mondo è molto piccolo

barbarossa · 11 March 2004, 13:24

Yes Manos!
You have reason and the Mediterranean Sea is smaller too.

Eheheh

Dhidhimos-rib

Manos · 11 March 2004, 13:31

@ Luigi

tango · 14 March 2004, 18:43

This is a small world!!!!

Hi
I never expected to meet you again but there it is
Net power!

Hey I hope everything is well with you and your family and you had a great time in Greece.
I plan to be back in these waters again next July, based in Ithaka, Kioni.

Still cannot believe it.

OK here is another photo of the boat from the rear

Keep well
Odysseas

tango · 14 March 2004, 19:05

Here's another one, this one in 2002 in Paros

Manos knows these waters like he knows his garden!...

Best wishes
Odysseas

PS Mano... I got the text and will post as soon as I can get the time to scan and OCR it. I also wrote to some a magazine with a friend and I will post the reply (I'll translate it from Greek for all to see)
it is interesting.