Best 250

FreeTrader · 22 April 2006, 21:41

On the assumption that my Opti's goosed. I wondered what experience people have of the following engines:

1. Yam 250 4 stroke
2. Suzuki 250 4 stroke
3. Evinrue E-tec 250 2 stroke

I'm discounting the Verado on grounds of fuel consumption.

Think option 2 could be best bet?

Roy Smith · 23 April 2006, 04:37

Yamaha, we have had both 225 and 250 four stroke,
There are many threads on this subject but none have convinced me other wise, let the debate begin.

FreeTrader · 23 April 2006, 08:17

Rib internationals tests seemed inconclusive, but the Suzuki looks like the most frugal, and the cheapest?

RibRoy · 23 April 2006, 08:56

Hi, Someone told me that Yamaha has a timing belt. I know Suz has a chain, and that is better. If your going to use your boat with heavy load I also belive that you will feel the Suz have better "torque". That is because it is geared down twice. Otherwice I dont think its much that seperate Suz and Yam. A Tornado with twin Yam 150 /4 stroke that was stolen last year had 1100 hours without major faults. I have a Suz 250 with 250 hours. Apart from probs with the gearcontrole initially, its been working fine. As Martin says in another thread we blew one ( head gasket ) 5 months ago. It was replaced immidiatly ( short block ) by Suz. They also put another engine on the boat while repairing it.

For me E-tec is not interresting. (Changing sparkplugs every 100 hour, lot of 2 stroke oil and the noice)

Fjordrafting · 23 April 2006, 09:42

We use all our equippment hard, and the 2x250 Evinrude were worn out quite rappedly. Everything broke except from the powerhead. We also had to carry 600l of two-stroke oil that season. The sparkplugs only lasts half of the time as stated by Evinrude. So Evinrude is out of the question.
We have had 225 fourstroke Yamaha for four years, it has more than 700 hours, no problem except for a broken bracket. We hear similar storries all the time. Do not go for the HPDI which is no good.
The Verado is defenately not an engine to eliminate. Yes it uses more gas than the other engines after 5000 rpm, but how much time do you spend there, maybe 5% of your total boatingtime? We have discussed the Verado with several other searaftingcompanies in Sweeden, and nobody has broblems with it. We have new Revenger 34 with a pair of them, they will be started the first time next Thuesday. If we have any problems with them, we sure will post.
When it comes to Suzuki, it is a great engine, but three blown 2005 250`s within the last 5 months in Norway alone is no good. Also hard to find proppelers for them if you want to go faster than 52 knots. This is because of their gearratio. We have to use 32" and 34" proppelers, and that is hard to find. We can not afford to take any chanses, so we probbably will go for Yamaha or Verado on our next Revenger arriving in May. The only reason for us to not go for Yamaha is that there is no service for Yamaha in town. We will use our Verdoes hard during April/May, and if they survive, we go for another pair of Veradoes. If not we have to choose the Yamaha even if they do not service the engies in our town.
Yamaha are said to come with 300hp fourstroke this season.

J S · 23 April 2006, 10:15

Fjordrafting i have had the same experience with the Evinrude using the spark plugs very quickly.

James

Chris Murray · 23 April 2006, 10:30

Are we talking about the earlier Evinrudes or the Etec?

It's a bit late for me, as my engine has already been purchased but it would be interesting for any of us looking at these engines to know if it is the Etec or its forerunner that you are commenting upon. It seems that the Etec is a rather different engine to what has gone before.

Cheers!

Chris.

J S · 23 April 2006, 10:33

I was talking about E-tecs

James

codprawn · 23 April 2006, 12:16

Quinquari nearly always supply Evinrudes with their commercial boats - they get quite a pasting but never seem to have much trouble.

Those Norwegians use their boats VERY hard indeed. For private use I don't think you would go far wrong with the Suzuki. They are also very good on fuel and prob the cheapest as well. Not only that but they are quite a bit lighter than the competition.

As you are in the Channel Islands why not have a word with Bob at Shoreline in Guernsey - very nice bloke and really knows his stuff - I am sure he will do you a good deal.

Personally it would be

1st Evinrude Etec
2nd Suzuki
3rd Yamaha
4th Verado

I know you need something soon but the one I will be looking out for will be the new suzuki 300hp due to be launched early next year.

Fjordrafting · 23 April 2006, 12:23

Talking about both the DI and the etec. The sparks had to be changed every 50 hour on the DI, and every 150 hour on the etec. This is half the time of what Evinrude claims. After 50/150 hours, it is impossible to start the engines.
And the thing about the etec being less thursty is bull because what you save in gas, you spend in oil.
The oilconsumption on the DI was 2% and the etec more like 1.5% than the 1% claimed by Evinrude.
All the brackets and gear seam to be the same on DI and etec. We have broken two gearboxes. But for a normal boater, this is no problem. As said before, we do go harder with our gear than most others do. So not to worry at all for your etec, they will serve you just fine. And there are always opinions about everything, others will say the exact opposit of what we say, and they can be 100% certain that what they say is right.
We are just letting out our oppinion in this discusion.
As to Quinquari, their boats are big and slow and do not get much airtime. A 11, rib with twin 200 etec and 14 people on board is cruising at 30-35 knots. You don`t break anything than else than a cheap African rib at that speed or maybe a Tornado, if you should belive what Rib International and HMS wrote a month ago;-).

codprawn · 23 April 2006, 12:33

What do you mean African??? They are made in the UK!!!

Yes they are different kinds of boats to yours - they may be slower but they would probably handle the rough stuff better.

Hurry up and post some pics/videos of that 34' Revenger of yours!!!

Whoops just realised you are on about the tests not the Quinquaris!!!

Fjordrafting · 23 April 2006, 15:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

What do you mean African??? They are made in the UK!!!

Did never say that Tornado was African built, knowing that they are built someplace just north of Hull. Personally we not do have anything against Tornado, was just refering to HMS as HMS an I were having quite a though dispute on this site.
And I think that HMS was weigh out of line with his Tornado-test. Tornadoes to me are just as good as any other boat.
Talking about Tornado, the new 11 m. Tornado with stepped hull is a though boat. A boat like that is comming over from England the first week in May. A friend of mine is going to use it for searafting. We are putting on 3x275 on a bracket. The boat will have 14 Ullman suspention-seats. Looking at 60+ knots with stepped hull and the bracket.
Talking about the Humber, yes it is a great boat, absolutely nothing wrong with it, only comenting about the size vs enginepower on the 11 m. 400 hp on 11 m. is half the hp of what is being put on the new Tornado, and in our opinion it is the speed combined with the waves that breaks the gear. It is hard to break an engine when it goes 35 knots most of the day vs jumping around in 55 knots.

FreeTrader · 23 April 2006, 18:19

This 250 engine thing is a perennial argument, but really appreciate first hand experience of these engines. I do like the Verado's digital throttle, but actually I think I do spend a lot of time doing 5000+ rpm, as I like to get where I'm going as fast as possible, so its mad fuel consumption is out of the question.

Best price I've seen on the Suzuki 250 is £9.5k exVAT, which kind of settles the argument, because I don't think I'd get any of the others for that price. Has anyone beaten that argument.

One of the things I loved about the Opti was the knock your head off acceleration - would that be there with the Suz?

Fjordrafting · 23 April 2006, 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreeTrader

One of the things I loved about the Opti was the knock your head off acceleration - would that be there with the Suz?

In the last two issues of Rib Magazine, they have printed a test of the 250`s.
Suzuki is the slowest, using 52.8% more time to reach 40 knots than the fastest in the test.
Testing 0-40 knots:
1)Yamaha 11.71 secs
2)Verado 13.13 secs
3) Evinrude 14.71 secs
4) Suzuki 17.9 secs

This is not the bible as choice of proppellers are of major importance doing this test. Yamaha did also have a top speed of 47.35 knots vs the Suz had a top speed of 45.75 knots. This might show that the Yamahas were propped not only for acceleration.That said, if I may come up with a rumour heared at the London boatshow 2006, the Yamaha was tested one month after the others because they used their new 300hp fourstroke with a 250 hood. The 300 is then to be launched 06/07.
So....in the end of the day you really never know. But personally, the Suz feels slower than the others.

Roy Smith · 23 April 2006, 20:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by RibRoy

Hi, Someone told me that Yamaha has a timing belt. I know Suz has a chain, and that is better. If your going to use your boat with heavy load I also belive that you will feel the Suz have better "torque". That is because it is geared down twice. Otherwice I dont think its much that seperate Suz and Yam. A Tornado with twin Yam 150 /4 stroke that was stolen last year had 1100 hours without major faults. I have a Suz 250 with 250 hours. Apart from probs with the gearcontrole initially, its been working fine. As Martin says in another thread we blew one ( head gasket ) 5 months ago. It was replaced immidiatly ( short block ) by Suz. They also put another engine on the boat while repairing it.

For me E-tec is not interresting. (Changing sparkplugs every 100 hour, lot of 2 stroke oil and the noice)

On a engine of this size i dont think the chain V belt makes much diffeance
After all Robbinson Helicopters use belts as do a lot of performance cars.
The last 4 wheel drive we had broke its timing chain.
Perhaps i look at things to far ahead but i know that in three years times you will sell your boat with ease with a yamaha. i allways get a bad feeling when
engine makers start dumping with massive discounts looks cheep now.
This is only my opinion but based on phoning round with an imadgenary second hand boat to see who would buy (not brokeridge) but out right.

pathalla · 24 April 2006, 00:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by codprawn

What do you mean African??? They are made in the UK!!!

Africa, U.K. what's the difference???
JUST KIDDING!!! Hey Cod, where's your boat?

codprawn · 24 April 2006, 02:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by pathalla

Africa, U.K. what's the difference???
JUST KIDDING!!! Hey Cod, where's your boat?

Sitting in Guernsey waiting for me!!!

Am itching to go and get it but will be another week or 2 before I can get out there!!!

BogMonster · 24 April 2006, 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy Smith

On a engine of this size i dont think the chain V belt makes much diffeance
After all Robbinson Helicopters use belts as do a lot of performance cars.
The last 4 wheel drive we had broke its timing chain.
Perhaps i look at things to far ahead but i know that in three years times you will sell your boat with ease with a yamaha. i allways get a bad feeling when
engine makers start dumping with massive discounts looks cheep now.
This is only my opinion but based on phoning round with an imadgenary second hand boat to see who would buy (not brokeridge) but out right.

Assuming the same principles apply to outboards as to vehicle engines (can't see any reason why not) belts are nothing to worry about AS LONG AS there is no inherent design weakness (think early Land Rover 300Tdi for an example of what not to do) and AS LONG AS it is changed at the recommended intervals. A chain will become a bit slack over time and just get noisy, if a belt is not changed it eventually gets bored with life perishes and snaps, or more commonly the teeth peel off. Usually at about 6 or 7 years in the vehicles I deal with (recommended change is at 5) it doesn't cause much damage in an old pushrod LR engine but can do a lot more in different engine layouts such as DOHC where there aren't "sacrificial components" like pushrods to absorb the crunch.the