Aprox date for this engine please - Page 2

Nos4r2 · 14 October 2008, 21:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSP

Nice one. It may tell me in the manual that Nos4r2 linked to.

Hang on and I'll tell you

Nos4r2 · 14 October 2008, 21:53

50:1 according to that manual.

JSP · 14 October 2008, 23:00

Cheers mate, I could have sworn it was nasher who said about the 50 or 100:1 ... I need one of them there younger women

ruddles · 15 October 2008, 02:41

Hi JSP
Dont wanna put a downer on things.. but.. the guy is telling you a load of porkies it appears. the engine looks to be about 17 years old or more, without the the code, hard to tell. IF it has been serviced on a regular basis, then he should have receipts. If he has done it himself, then he wont mind removing the lower leg for inspection of internal corrosion in the leg. also remove the powerhead at the time, a strightforward job, and check the ehaust and lower bearing carrier, driveshaft connection etc for terminal corrosion. Check the compressions too, lower gearbox oil for colour and metal contents.
The boat could be a lot older too.
As you may have read in a few threads here, just scrapped a 15 yam of similar vintage due to internal corrosion, yes, it can look great outside... but...
otherwise I would walk away, seriously.

JSP · 15 October 2008, 08:34

You've got my backside twitching now Ruddles. Don't want to travel all that way and find a Muppet with a spinning bow tie! I know a good amount about normal diesel engines but outboards I understand can be a different ball game.

spartacus · 15 October 2008, 09:24

I personally think removal of the lower leg is overkill. Bit like buying a used car - "Do you mind if I remove the engine, just want to check something!)

For £2,000 it's a deal. Start the engine up and see it pumps water with strong tell-tale, etc.

Kernow Buoy · 15 October 2008, 12:33

Found this courtesy of 'Roofer' posted in 2005

"There should be a letter in the serial number, it works like this

1990=d, 1991=c, 1992=b, 1993=a, 1994=z, 1995=y, 1996=x, 1997=w, 1998=v, 1999=u, 2000=t, 2001=s, 2002=r, 2003=q, 2004=p, 2005=n

hope this helps"

There you go so mine is a 94, you could ring the seller and ask for the letter?

m chappelow · 15 October 2008, 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSP

Cheers mate, I could have sworn it was nasher who said about the 50 or 100:1 ... I need one of them there younger women

from what i was told if the engine is used hard and fast it wants to be at 50/1 but if its usage is slow speed or light use 100/1. regards younger women my wifes 10 years younger than me sometimes i wish she was 10 years older .

ruddles · 15 October 2008, 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by spartacus

I personally think removal of the lower leg is overkill. Bit like buying a used car - "Do you mind if I remove the engine, just want to check something!)

For £2,000 it's a deal. Start the engine up and see it pumps water with strong tell-tale, etc.

I would disagree strongly. to change the impellor, one needs to remove the lower leg, it is a normal service item. The seller says it has been maintained / serviced on a regular basis, so it shoul only take a short time and can tell you a heck of a lot. IF for example, the blts dont want to remove, then you have a problem, IF the waterpump housing is badly corroded, you also have a problem. The yam I scrapped did run and pump water, but was still beyond any sensible repair. It could not have had a new impellor fitted or a simple service of the powerhead, the aluminium castings were shot.

If the price is, say 2k, then what is the guy paying for the outboard ?, if you think the boat on its own is worth that and are prepared to buy another outboard, then ok.
Look, it could be a great engine, but its NOT 7 years old.
Make the sale dependent on a service of the engine at a reputable engineer if necessary. Ask the engineer to check for corrosion and sizing of powerhead bolts etc. with the lower leg off you can at least shine a torch INSIDE the main leg - the area where the corrosion will kill the thing no matter how clean the outside is.
Same as a thorough test run and compression check, check on plug colours after a run. If you think thats too much to ask, then fine, but if there is 500 squids in the deal for the engine AND its a pup, its a lot of dosh to throw away. another 500 plus only buys another dubious engine.
Sorry to sound like the doom merchant here, as said, it may be a good motor, but a few sensible precautions are called for. Just making sure it starts and pumps water is not in any way conclusive or objective.
Caveat Emptor

Andy JC · 15 October 2008, 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruddles

If the price is, say 2k, then what is the guy paying for the outboard ?,

He said in a previous post that he paid £1500. Without seeing the state of the package it's impossible to judge accurately. However, roughly speaking, if the boat's worth in the region of £850 and the trailer £200 then he effectively only paid around £450 for the engine (obviously very approximately worked out).
Even if the engine was shot he could probably still get a couple hundred quid back from it on ebay as 'spares or repair' so it's not quite as serious as you make out.

I hear what yor saying Ruds and agree you have to be quite vigilant but, personally I would be pretty cheesed off if someone came to look at my engine(if up for sale) and wanted to remove the lower leg

Hear the engine run, test compression, check plugs and general condition yeah but I'd have to draw the line if someone I've just met insisted on dismantling my (working perfectly) engine

ruddles · 15 October 2008, 14:56

Ok Andy, no worries.
Wouñld you have the same reservations if the buyer asked that the sale be dependent on an inspection of the engine by a qualified marine engineer ?. He takes the outboard to an ouboard specialist, they check it over, no doubt involving said removal of lower leg and appropriate inspections etc ?.
Surely no one could object to that - and for what it would cost, it would be money well spent.
Rudds

JSP · 15 October 2008, 19:41

Thanks for all your in put lads. Got some clues about the boat now that I don't really like. The owner has never used the boat since he bought it. Bought it for a tender for his trawler but never got round to using it. Asked if he had a Prop bag with it (on the off chance), no was his answer as the one it had when he bought it was tatty and got binned and he's never moved it since so has never bought one.
Hmmm, besides everything else do ya think the bearings on the trailer will be up to a 180 mile trip? I don't like my chances!

FECK!! DRINK!! FECK!!!!

Nos4r2 · 15 October 2008, 22:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSP

Thanks for all your in put lads. Got some clues about the boat now that I don't really like. The owner has never used the boat since he bought it. Bought it for a tender for his trawler but never got round to using it. Asked if he had a Prop bag with it (on the off chance), no was his answer as the one it had when he bought it was tatty and got binned and he's never moved it since so has never bought one.
Hmmm, besides everything else do ya think the bearings on the trailer will be up to a 180 mile trip? I don't like my chances!

FECK!! DRINK!! FECK!!!!

I think any answers you need now are only answerable when you see it.

Nos4r2 · 15 October 2008, 22:35

Just looked at the ebay ad-those pics aren't taken on someone's driveway.. If he hasn't moved it for 2 years then they are at least 2 years old.

Andy JC · 16 October 2008, 07:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by ruddles

Wouñld you have the same reservations if the buyer asked that the sale be dependent on an inspection of the engine by a qualified marine engineer ?. He takes the outboard to an ouboard specialist, they check it over, no doubt involving said removal of lower leg and appropriate inspections etc ?.
Surely no one could object to that - and for what it would cost, it would be money well spent.
Rudds

Potential problem there is if the guy says he's taking your outboard to a dealer, how do you know you'll ever see him or it again? - he could pay you a deposit or in full but then it starts to get messy.

I think you have been particularly unlucky in your situation and while I'm sure it wasn't the first 15 yr old scrapper or the last as far as I know it's fairly rare - after all, there are thousands of motors still going strong that were built in the 60's and 70's

I think you are always taking a chance buying a used engine, it's just a case of assessing the risk. While you can't always judge a book by it's cover, generaly speaking if something looks like it's been looked after on the outside there's a good chance it might have been

Andy JC · 16 October 2008, 07:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSP

Asked if he had a Prop bag with it (on the off chance), no was his answer as the one it had when he bought it was tatty and got binned and he's never moved it since so has never bought one.
Hmmm, besides everything else do ya think the bearings on the trailer will be up to a 180 mile trip? I don't like my chances!

As far as the wheel bearings are concearned, ask him to jack each side up (between the 2 of you you might even be able to lift each side on to some blocks or bricks) and check for excessive play or rumbling when you spin it. If it rumbles badly then I wouldn't risk it, if it's just play you could try tightening up the crown nut a little but it's still a bit of a risk. If there's a little bit of play don't worry, that's normal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nos4r2

Just looked at the ebay ad-those pics aren't taken on someone's driveway.. If he hasn't moved it for 2 years then they are at least 2 years old.

I noticed that, looks more like it's in a boat yard or something. Could be pics the previous owner took (I've found it's common for people to use previous owners pics when selling) or he could be telling porkies

Just go take a look at it, 180 miles isn't that far and from the pics it looks pretty good for the lolly

ruddles · 16 October 2008, 08:05

Hello Andy
Its a difficult one, yes. But not insurmountable. A lot of the issue os the perception of money and worth, to someone whome 1500 or 2k squids is not a lot of dosh in the great scheme of things, then ok, to others, it is a lot of dosh. I am sure it is possible with an accomodating seller to trailer the whole boat to the dealer, service engineer with an agreed inspection fee paid up front by the buyer, note, this is not a full service, just a qualified inspection.
IF for example, a seller states it has been regularly serviced, then he should be able to show it, and would certainly not object to a quick inspection. IF on the other hand, someone says it is apx 7 years old and it turns out to be probably at least double that, and says it has had regular servicing and this is unlikely to have been been done becuase you then find out it hasent moved in years for example, (it doesnt mean it doesnt need servicing at the appropriate time intervals.)..........................
This ones semells of a rat to me, but with correct precautions may be a good buy, without them I wouldnt touch it.
Yes, it certainly is risk management, and thats about what you can afford to lose in one of its many areas, some can afford more than others, some may not mind parting an engine for spares on ebay for example. Then the problem arises in trying to buy a replacement that will be better.. all for the sake of a quick inspection by a qualified person.
INtersting discussion though, and certainly highlights differing perceptions. Thanks for the input.
Rudds

JSP · 16 October 2008, 08:57

I've decided to jib it. Got a bad feeling about it.
I never thought about the photos' being in a compound/yard so well done Sherlock

Pete7 · 16 October 2008, 09:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSP

I've decided to jib it.

Good call if you have any doubts. Once the cold weather and dark nights settle in their will be plenty of other bargins about.

Pete

JSP · 16 October 2008, 09:55

I feel abit bad and hate going back on a deal but you've got to look out for number one first haven't you? If he'd said in the add that the engine was older and the thing hadn't been moved for so long things would have been different

Anyway, I've bitten the bullet and just put £100 deposit on a 4m searider. But it's got a very old donkey on the back which I understand are know for being a bit gutless? Mercury 50hp PTT around 88/89 I've been told.
Ever since I joined this site and asked for all your good advice (and it has been VERY good, thanks folks) I've been pointed towards a searider, so I'm made up I've got one. Hoping to sell on the engine for what I can get for it in time and get another donkey. It's sat on a new trailer too.

Anyway's, time I paid this site back and become a supporter!