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Old 24 May 2005, 12:33   #31
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Country: UK - Wales
Town: swansea
Boat name: Too Blue
Make: BLANK
Length: 8m +
Engine: Suzuki DT225
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 12,791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Hearne
I would LIKE to use my RIB for - say 2 day a week for 20 weeks a year

Codders I hope you mange to get to us your rib as much as this but I do think you are being a bit optimistic
How will you fit in all the rest of your busyness life?
Nick
Don't tend to work weekends anymore and also I intend using the RIB in all sorts of weather - hence getting a drysuit and helmet!!!
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Old 24 May 2005, 13:34   #32
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Ermm, unless your 4 hours of boating are gonna be launch, wammo full throttle for 4 hrs, stop recover, I dont think your gonna burn 20gph for 4 hours. I suspect on a typical day out you'll do 40galls mebbe depending on how far you go.

You boys must have fun with your 'top trumps' cards eh? 'My mate has a F5431 Maranwhateverthehell, does 459 mph!', 'Ha thats nothing I have a Lamborrahti Fasterpussycat that does 820mph, so I win haha!'

All fits with my theory of CP being a schoolboy with an overactive imagination........
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Old 24 May 2005, 16:13   #33
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Make: Quinquari/Humber
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Engine: Twin ETEC200s
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 130
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGR


Can a 225 really burn through 90+ litres of petrol an hour?!? Are you sure you've ordered an engine, and not a pump for an oil rig?!?

D...
Agree 100%.

To that I also add is the fact the purchasers seek the most ecconomical engine in the hope of saving fuel costs.

The truth is that the choice of vessel/engine but even more so the balancing of the boat to loading (fixed and moveable) is more critical. So please do not compare 2 engines on diff. boats or even fit outs.

On a well balanced boat an old fashioned carb 2 st will out do the latest injection/4 stroke if that boat is not so well balanced.

Our approach is to weigh each component as it is fitted to a vessel and from that work out the moments and relate to the vessels LCG and CCG. It works !

Notwithstanding the fuel rebates why do 95% of commercial users opt for 2 stroke even though there is an extra oil cost ?

We are currently fitting a pair of old fashioned carb 200hp 2 strokes (Yam) on a new 10m for the Red Cross in Indonesia ( they must have the older type due to servicing in the area). It will be interesting to see how these perform on a balanced boat and I will relate figures back.

Alas do not forget props.

Cheers

John
www.quinquari.co.uk
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Old 24 May 2005, 16:20   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quinquarimarine
Agree 100%.

To that I also add is the fact the purchasers seek the most ecconomical engine in the hope of saving fuel costs.

The truth is that the choice of vessel/engine but even more so the balancing of the boat to loading (fixed and moveable) is more critical. So please do not compare 2 engines on diff. boats or even fit outs.

On a well balanced boat an old fashioned carb 2 st will out do the latest injection/4 stroke if that boat is not so well balanced.

Our approach is to weigh each component as it is fitted to a vessel and from that work out the moments and relate to the vessels LCG and CCG. It works !

Notwithstanding the fuel rebates why do 95% of commercial users opt for 2 stroke even though there is an extra oil cost ?

We are currently fitting a pair of old fashioned carb 200hp 2 strokes (Yam) on a new 10m for the Red Cross in Indonesia ( they must have the older type due to servicing in the area). It will be interesting to see how these perform on a balanced boat and I will relate figures back.

Alas do not forget props.

Cheers

John
www.quinquari.co.uk

Yes please John - if anyone knows their stuff it's you!!! Nothing beats experience eh???
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Old 25 May 2005, 03:33   #35
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Boat name: S.S. Nobstick
Make: Three Wise Monkeys
Length: 3m +
Engine: 44lbs of thrust....
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,115
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinquarimarine
Agree 100%.

To that I also add is the fact the purchasers seek the most ecconomical engine in the hope of saving fuel costs.

The truth is that the choice of vessel/engine but even more so the balancing of the boat to loading (fixed and moveable) is more critical. So please do not compare 2 engines on diff. boats or even fit outs.

On a well balanced boat an old fashioned carb 2 st will out do the latest injection/4 stroke if that boat is not so well balanced.

Our approach is to weigh each component as it is fitted to a vessel and from that work out the moments and relate to the vessels LCG and CCG. It works !

Notwithstanding the fuel rebates why do 95% of commercial users opt for 2 stroke even though there is an extra oil cost ?

We are currently fitting a pair of old fashioned carb 200hp 2 strokes (Yam) on a new 10m for the Red Cross in Indonesia ( they must have the older type due to servicing in the area). It will be interesting to see how these perform on a balanced boat and I will relate figures back.

Alas do not forget props.

Cheers

John
www.quinquari.co.uk
Thank you for your input, that is an interesting observation, John. Are you, if I read you correctly, inferring that most people don’t bother to set up a boat as well as you do? It’s just that Andy and Frank put an awful lot of sea time and effort into setting up my boat and I’d be very disappointed if I thought they weren’t experienced enough to get it right. Should I be going back to them and saying that my boat should be more economical to run? Bearing in mind we set the boat and prop for the conditions that my boat has run at most of the time.

Also I’m intrigued by your question of the choice of two strokes for commercial use and the inference that it because of better fuel consumption figures. I understand that people who need to do maintenance “in the field” would choose two strokes and that people who expect their engines to be abused and need overhauling would choose two strokes, or that people who need to go as fast as light as possible would choose two strokes.

Where do you get the figure of 90% from? I appreciate you have vastly more experience than most of us in the commercial field, but I have been wracking my brains to think of all the commercial RIBs that I can and can only think of ones with four strokes or diesels. Is the two-stroke “market” a particular sector of the commercial boat world? Off shore/Rig work?

Cheers, Jono
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Old 25 May 2005, 06:20   #36
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This is turning out to be a very interesting thread. I await the next instalment with anticipation.

Shows how much I know about outboards. I went to the Southampton Sportsboat and RIB show and got talking to the guy selling Evinrude engines. We were talking about the new E Tec and its lack of servicing etc, he extolled the finer virtues of the engine including how fuel efficient it was compared to a Four Stroke. It was at this point I realised its a 2 Stroke.

Why can't they make choosing things easier. I suppose life would be boring then.

I must admit I do like the idea behind the new Evinrude E Tecs. Has anybody got any experience of this engine yet ?

Regards Nick R.
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Old 25 May 2005, 07:19   #37
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Nick

Robin on the forum had an E-Tec 50 on his Ribcraft 4.8 and loved it. A recent new member, Humper, has the 250 E-Tec on a 7.5m Osprey and I was out with him off Anglesey a couple of weeks ago. He also raves about it. Brambles and AshleyD also have a 250 E-Tec on their Scorpion which they seem to rate very highly as the replacement for the Honda 225 which died as a result of water ingress.

I suspect it's a bit early to evaluate the E-Tec properly as they were only launched 18mths ago, although early indications suggest they're impressive bits of kit. They're launching the 115hp version later this year followed soon after by the 135 and 150. Unfortunately, some people are still biased against Evinrude as a result of the reliability problems that beset their Ficht engines a few years ago, rather in the same way that people still think Jaguars are unreliable cars! Like Jaguar, however, Evinrude now has all the backing and resources of a large corporation and Bombardier has invested massively to ensure the success of the E-Tec concept. As one dealer noted, the E-Tec should currently be the best engine on the market. I personally think they're the most aesthetically pleasing engine out there and they definitely sound the best
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Old 25 May 2005, 09:28   #38
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Country: Canada
Town: Iqaluit, Nunavut
Boat name: Turaagaq -North Star
Make: Bombard WB 385 -2002
Length: 3m +
Engine: Mercury 25 4-Stroke
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 58
In my opinion there are trade off's with either type. E-Tec and similar Direct Injection 2-stroke engines are most likely best when you want the max HP on a smallish rib and with this new technology you burn much less fuel and oil compared to the prehistoric 2's. Yes throttle response is better and the weight issue makes it a difficult decision however, 2 strokes will always burn more fuel, oil and plugs than an EFI 4 and have you ever compared the DB rating on those two's? Wow those things are noisy. I personally prefer my little Merc 4 for reliability, uniform torque curve, quietness and low vibration. I hunt seals and caribou from the water so the quiet factor really helps. I could have better performance with a Merc 30 2-stroke which weights 115lbs compared to 178lbs on my 25 so that says a lot. I can barely lift the 25 myself and I am at the limit for transom weight which is terrible for getting to plane speed but when I get there I have much more confidence and am much happier with my 4-stroke out in remote areas. Bombardier adopted this E-Tec technology from the SDI engines in their snowmobiles so the R&D costs would be significantly less, I have seen amazing consumption figures from these SDI’s on snowmobiles so I believe companies like Suzuki will need to do some serious marketing to convince all of their possible customers to go with 4-strokes.
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Old 25 May 2005, 09:41   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggles
This is turning out to be a very interesting thread. I await the next instalment with anticipation.

Shows how much I know about outboards. I went to the Southampton Sportsboat and RIB show and got talking to the guy selling Evinrude engines. We were talking about the new E Tec and its lack of servicing etc, he extolled the finer virtues of the engine including how fuel efficient it was compared to a Four Stroke. It was at this point I realised its a 2 Stroke.

Why can't they make choosing things easier. I suppose life would be boring then.

I must admit I do like the idea behind the new Evinrude E Tecs. Has anybody got any experience of this engine yet ?

Regards Nick R.

Nick,

I have a 250HP E-Tec and till now we are very pleased with it. So far we have used it 35 hours. Till now, the strongest points we have noticed are
- the engine starts immediately within the first second
- the engine has lots of torque and a good top end speed (comparable to the Yamaha 250 VMax)
- the engine is very quiet at idle and low RMP’s. Between 1500-4000 RMP’s it makes a nice deep sound but not too loud and above 4000 RMP I can’t hear it any more due to the wind.
- Fuel economy is OK. At WOT it burns 85l/hour. But our average till now is around 25l/hour.
- the oil ratio is about 1l oil versus 70l fuel
- the only maintenance intervention we had till date was changing the gear case oil after 10 hours. Next maintenance should be within almost 265 hours.


Paul
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Old 25 May 2005, 09:54   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaharrier
Nick,

........- the only maintenance intervention we had till date was changing the gear case oil after 10 hours. Next maintenance should be within almost 265 hours.


Paul
Now there's a damned fine reason to buy a two stroke..
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