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Old 15 May 2013, 08:08   #1
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What would you do?...

So...

You're sitting on a pontoon watching failure after failure to moor a boat against a strong tide, with other boats (possibly including your own) becoming liable to a bit of a knock. Notwithstanding the fact that several of the group are attractive females (without LJs) on the cusp of falling in as they try to throw ropes, jump ashore etc, and the berthing manoeuvre is something you routinely carry out quickly and in safety, do you:

a) Do and say nothing - the risks and/or liability are too high
b) Advise from the shore
c) Jump on (it's possible without risk), advise but don't touch the helm
d) Jump on (it's possible without risk) and deftly moor it, having tea and medals all round before carrying the girls off into the sunset
e) Something else

And actually, what are the liability implications of these sorts of actions eg if the prop fouls and the engine stalls whilst you're merrily parking away? Does it matter if you're a commercial skipper by trade, and unpaid for this action? What about a verbal contract before jumping on - how meaningful would this be?

Maybe I ought to re take the PPR course
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Old 15 May 2013, 08:16   #2
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Or Video it - and send into a tv show or added to your teaching collection....

S.
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Old 15 May 2013, 08:28   #3
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answer = d, But instead of mooring up and all the rest, just drive the rib off to a secluded diving location.
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Old 15 May 2013, 11:02   #4
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I'd stand on the pontoon that they're attempting to land on, catch the rope tie it around a cleat & leave.
I can justify this as I'm happily married & wish to remain so.
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Old 15 May 2013, 11:38   #5
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E - film it and place on here for all to comment on
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Old 15 May 2013, 12:59   #6
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Given that damage to other boats is a possibility I'd ask if the skipper would mind my mooring the boat for them. I'd say something like "I'm familiar with the marina; it's really hard to moor here if you're not a local. Would you mind if I jumped on board and lent a hand?". That way, his/her ego won't get a knock back. If the answer's no I'd move my boat and let them get on with it.
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Old 17 May 2013, 07:05   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevelondon79 View Post
So...

You're sitting on a pontoon watching failure after failure to moor a boat against a strong tide, with other boats (possibly including your own) becoming liable to a bit of a knock. Notwithstanding the fact that several of the group are attractive females (without LJs) on the cusp of falling in as they try to throw ropes, jump ashore etc, and the berthing manoeuvre is something you routinely carry out quickly and in safety, do you:

a) Do and say nothing - the risks and/or liability are too high
b) Advise from the shore
c) Jump on (it's possible without risk), advise but don't touch the helm
d) Jump on (it's possible without risk) and deftly moor it, having tea and medals all round before carrying the girls off into the sunset
e) Something else

And actually, what are the liability implications of these sorts of actions eg if the prop fouls and the engine stalls whilst you're merrily parking away? Does it matter if you're a commercial skipper by trade, and unpaid for this action? What about a verbal contract before jumping on - how meaningful would this be?

Maybe I ought to re take the PPR course
If you do 'd' you may run the risk of meeting the parents in the morning!
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Old 17 May 2013, 08:56   #8
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Any pictures?
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Old 21 July 2013, 02:21   #9
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When faced with similar situations, I've nosed my rib onto their vessel and pressed against the quay. Had to do it only a few weeks ago actually, to a yacht in Den Helder.



Quote:
Originally Posted by stevelondon79 View Post
So...

You're sitting on a pontoon watching failure after failure to moor a boat against a strong tide, with other boats (possibly including your own) becoming liable to a bit of a knock. Notwithstanding the fact that several of the group are attractive females (without LJs) on the cusp of falling in as they try to throw ropes, jump ashore etc, and the berthing manoeuvre is something you routinely carry out quickly and in safety, do you:

a) Do and say nothing - the risks and/or liability are too high
b) Advise from the shore
c) Jump on (it's possible without risk), advise but don't touch the helm
d) Jump on (it's possible without risk) and deftly moor it, having tea and medals all round before carrying the girls off into the sunset
e) Something else

And actually, what are the liability implications of these sorts of actions eg if the prop fouls and the engine stalls whilst you're merrily parking away? Does it matter if you're a commercial skipper by trade, and unpaid for this action? What about a verbal contract before jumping on - how meaningful would this be?

Maybe I ought to re take the PPR course
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Old 21 July 2013, 02:51   #10
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I think leave it alone as I think as a commercial skipper if you give advise and they cock it up you may be liable. I was told this while being a kitesurfing instructor that if somebody asked my advice on the beach ( not in a booked lesson) and they hurt themselves because of my advice say doing a new trick or something. Sad but I think that's the case correct me if I'm wrong
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Old 21 July 2013, 03:15   #11
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What is the difference between giving advice on a forum and on the beach?
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Old 21 July 2013, 04:47   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redthunder View Post
I think leave it alone as I think as a commercial skipper if you give advise and they cock it up you may be liable. I was told this while being a kitesurfing instructor that if somebody asked my advice on the beach ( not in a booked lesson) and they hurt themselves because of my advice say doing a new trick or something. Sad but I think that's the case correct me if I'm wrong
As you say, "sad" world when people feel unable to offer a bit of friendly help or advice, it's akin to reading the rag headlines about the very rare occasion where someone does to the aid of a child, gets sued and then we assume that everyone is going to react in the same way....sometimes you just gotta grow a pair and work on the basis that you would have to be very unlucky to get sued, otherwise people will walk by when we really need help?
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Old 21 July 2013, 04:54   #13
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e) Something else


Kindly offer your help from shore.
Jumping onto the boat without invitation is an unacceptable assault.
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Old 21 July 2013, 04:59   #14
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e) Something else

Draft a written disclaimer agreement, arrange to meet at the respective lawyers' office and sign n witness, before proceeding
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Old 21 July 2013, 05:53   #15
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If you offer advice, then it is up to the person to take or not take that advice! if they do, then there should not be any problem, it should not make any difference if you are a professional skipper, as if you are not employed (ie paid) by them, then you have no liabilities.
I am sure a legal eagle would correct me, but from what I remember about contract law, is that you need something of value to be exchanged between the parties (or the promise of value) to constitute a contract. Offering to lend a hand is not a contract, as nothing is implied or given in return.
Law of Tort is different, but I would not have though it applied here, or in many cases.

It is so sad that many people think of "what happens if i get sued" before offering help. A search might show that British courts deal with very little in the way good samaritans getting sued for helping, as opposed to the American courts which seem to be reporting such cases often.

If i see someone who needs a hand, I offer, If they decline, no problems I go on my way, often they are very grateful for the help. I have towed people out of floods, out of ditches when its been snowy, or broken down, I dont worry about getting sued because i dont think it is a realistic probability.
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Old 22 July 2013, 01:11   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redthunder View Post
I think leave it alone as I think as a commercial skipper if you give advise and they cock it up you may be liable. I was told this while being a kitesurfing instructor that if somebody asked my advice on the beach ( not in a booked lesson) and they hurt themselves because of my advice say doing a new trick or something. Sad but I think that's the case correct me if I'm wrong
If the advice you give is correct, you've got nothing to worry about. It's only if you are negligent and gave bad advice that you could be liable
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Old 22 July 2013, 02:06   #17
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Your profession is against you!!

I have just asked my legal eagle (wife) about this and if you act and it goes wrong even if they don't know what you do for a living you would be responsible to a court as it would not be classed as an action by a Good Samaritan.
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Old 22 July 2013, 03:10   #18
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Shouldn't we be responsible about these sorts of things and provide guidance?

If we are professional and know what this 'Skipper' should be doing then let's tell them. if they don't do what we suggest and they c*ck up then we can at least sleep nights. If there is a subsequent court case (this would, from my knowledge, not be instigated by insurers) then, if we're called to give evidence, we can honestly tell the court what actions we 'suggested' should be carried out and what actions were actually carried out.

Of course, if we c*cked up then it's our fault and maybe we're not as good a Skipper as we thought we were!
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Old 22 July 2013, 03:13   #19
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Quote:
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Your profession is against you!!

I have just asked my legal eagle (wife) about this and if you act and it goes wrong even if they don't know what you do for a living you would be responsible to a court as it would not be classed as an action by a Good Samaritan.
are you sure? If advise is given with the best intentions and it goes wrong how could they be liable? as

1: there will always be a difference in what was claimed to have been said verbally
2: you have the right to say what you want apart from the obvious things like race, religion etc but I did not see advice on that list?
3: what about forums and all the other advice that is given daily. If you are right would there not be millions or at least thousands of court cases every day resolving these issues?
4: Just because you give advice does not mean the person needs to take it.
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Old 22 July 2013, 05:26   #20
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I don't know about other professions, but my professional institution (RICS) warns us that any advice we give, paid or otherwise can lead to liability if we are negligent. I guess it is one of those leagal issues for which there aren't a great deal of precedents yet (except in America of course) and also the professional bodies trying to uphold standards at all times.
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