What first aid kit?

[MikeL]

Hi - for a commercial vessel operating no more then 12 miles from land etc... What is the required first aid kit to be carried,

I have tried google and got lots of info that contradicted itself!

Any ideas?

Mike

[TonyC]

I believe to be coded (i.e. commercial) you have to have a Category C first aid kit on board

[MikeL]

Cheers,

[tugandtow]

look at MSN 1768, SHIPS’ MEDICAL STORES

http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/1768.pdf

tells you everything you need to know

[Razorbill RIBs]

Mike,

The Cat C kit is indeed required, but does seem to contain a lot of kit you won't really need for 'day to day' accidents......

If you are hiring a liferaft you will probably need to meet the Solas B standard.....This includes a cat C first aid kit.

In order that it's accesible (and to appease the assesor) I requested my liferaft with a seperate Solas B grab bag (could have been inside the raft otherwise) which is kept handy in case you should need to abandon etc. As such, the cat C kit is easily accessed, but so as not to have to use anything from there unnecesarily (and having to pay for it when handing the liferaft back) we also carry a full 'day to day' first aid kit in the console which is our first choice for basic stuff....

This option doesn't cost any more than just hiring the liferaft and means your more expensive Cat C first aid kit is always in date (with each new hire agreement).

The added bonus if is that the Solas Bag also contains other stuff your assesor will require e.g reflective mirror /Thermal protective aids etc......

May be worth considering if space is available for a seperate grab bag....saves doubling up on kit!

Dan

[Doug Stormforce]

Cat C kit is required for vessel up to 60 NM from a safe haven. Vessels operating inland or in Cat A-C waters are not required to carry cat C kit, Vessels in Code 1 (Upto 150NM) carry Cat B and beyond (Code 0) carry Cat A


Dont confuse areas cat A-D with Kits cat A-C, they have no relation.

Originally Posted by Dan Worth

Mike,

In order that it's accesible (and to appease the assesor) I requested my liferaft with a seperate Solas B grab bag (could have been inside the raft otherwise) which is kept handy in case you should need to abandon etc. As such, the cat C kit is easily accessed, but so as not to have to use anything from there unnecesarily (and having to pay for it when handing the liferaft back) we also carry a full 'day to day' first aid kit in the console which is our first choice for basic stuff....

This option doesn't cost any more than just hiring the liferaft and means your more expensive Cat C first aid kit is always in date (with each new hire agreement).

The added bonus if is that the Solas Bag also contains other stuff your assesor will require e.g reflective mirror /Thermal protective aids etc......

I don't think the reason for carrying a Cat C kit in a grab bag and not in the raft is to appease an inspector. A cert from your packing company that confirms you have Solas kit in the raft will appease the inspector.

[Razorbill RIBs]

Hi Doug,

You are better qualified to know what kit is required for which waters....and I will stand corrected if stating that Cat C first aid kit was required was incorrect......All I know is that for my coding at Category 4 (20 miles safe haven daylight) I was definately required (asked by my assesor) to carry Cat C first aid kit.....

Further, I guess it may just have been my inspectors interpretation, but he was quite insistant that the boat itself had the Cat C kit (i.e. it was to hand).

If It was in the liferaft container it was not, as he saw it, accesible (unless you opened the liferaft container). He would, therefore, have required me to carry a seperate Cat C to that held as part of the Solas B kit.

He had exactly the same view regarding the items like the TPA's and reflective mirror etc if they were in the liferaft container....i.e I would have to have had duplicates on the boat itself - which were accesible.

As such, requesting that my liferaft supplier provided the Solas B kit as a seperate grab bag saved this duplication (and money) without being any less 'safe'.

All seemed quite logical to me too.....

Must admit, throughout the coding experience it was at times frustrating to learn of different assesors interpretations....it all seemed a bit loose /open to interpretation (the 250mm freeboard issue /Emergency steering interpretations to name two).

I am also perplexed as to how some RIBs achieve Cat 3 without shelter....I know there is a way you can show that a RIB 'tent' is available, but I know of another operator with NO shelter who has cat 3 (20 miles SH day and night)........

Dan

[Razorbill RIBs]

Hi Doug,

You are better qualified to know what kit is required for which waters....and I will stand corrected if stating that Cat C first aid kit was required was incorrect......All I know is that for my coding at Category 4 (20 miles safe haven daylight) I was definately required (asked by my assesor) to carry Cat C first aid kit.....

Further, I guess it may just have been my inspectors interpretation, but he was quite insistant that the boat itself had the Cat C kit (i.e. it was to hand).

If It was in the liferaft container it was not, as he saw it, accesible (unless you opened the liferaft container). He would, therefore, have required me to carry a seperate Cat C to that held as part of the Solas B kit.

He had exactly the same view regarding the items like the TPA's and reflective mirror etc if they were in the liferaft container....i.e I would have to have had duplicates on the boat itself - which were accesible.

As such, requesting that my liferaft supplier provided the Solas B kit as a seperate grab bag saved this duplication (and money) without being any less 'safe'.

All seemed quite logical to me too.....

Must admit, throughout the coding experience it was at times frustrating to learn of different assesors interpretations....it all seemed a bit loose /open to interpretation (the 250mm freeboard issue /Emergency steering interpretations to name two).

I am also perplexed as to how some RIBs achieve Cat 3 without shelter....I know there is a way you can show that a RIB 'tent' is available, but I know of another operator with NO shelter who has cat 3 (20 miles SH day and night)........

Dan

[MikeL]

Sorry a little confused again!

My boat will only every operate upto 12 miles offshore.

There is currently an argument about if it is a commercial boat or not as it is a large police rib.

If it is a commercial boat what first aid kit must it carry under the MCA codes?

Cheers

Mike

[Razorbill RIBs]

Mike,

Generally I found it quite difficult to pin down specific details of what was required for Coding when I was going through it, so please accept my apologies if i have muddied the waters....

For the record, my coding is to MCA Cat 4 (20 miles from Safe Haven and in Daylight etc) and having looked back through my list of reqirements I can confirm that I definately needed to carry a Cat C first aid kit (and was required that it be accesible on the boat itself, as detailed previously).

Someone like Doug will be better placed to advise you on what you require for 12 miles, so I will bow out

Dan

[Searider]

Originally Posted by MikeL

Sorry a little confused again!

My boat will only every operate upto 12 miles offshore.

There is currently an argument about if it is a commercial boat or not as it is a large police rib.

If it is a commercial boat what first aid kit must it carry under the MCA codes?

Cheers

Mike

I thought the Police had their own codes - I was sent some a couple of years ago - or are they not used any more?

[Poly]

Originally Posted by MikeL

Sorry a little confused again!

My boat will only every operate upto 12 miles offshore.

There is currently an argument about if it is a commercial boat or not as it is a large police rib.

If it is a commercial boat what first aid kit must it carry under the MCA codes?

Cheers

Mike

Mike, Here is the relevant section.

23. Medical Stores
23.1 Medical stores should be carried in accordance with the requirements set out in a Merchant Shipping Notice, currently MSN 1768 (M+F). This requires medical stores according to the distance from shore that a vessel operates. For vessels in Area Categories 2,3,4,5 and 6 Category C stores are required, as listed in Annex 2. For vessels in Area Category 1, Category B stores are required, and for Area Category 0, Category A stores are required. For details of the requirements for Category A and B stores reference should be made to MSN 1768 (M+F).

You will not be opperating in Areas 1 or 0 therefore you need "Category C medical stores" (if you are coded). The other requirements are all here: http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga-mn...04CA95E9786#23

[speedy]

The thing I hate about Cat C kits is that sure they are full of stuff we have never used but it's that plastic bag they come in...how the heck even when they are inside tough plastic first aid boxes do they get pinholes in them? The number of them I have opened to find the contents mouldy and damp is incredible, even when still well within date.

Opening them is even worse , once they are opened thats it!

I suppose a lot of guys do what we do, keep them safe on the boats wrapped up in as much waterproof covering as poss and keep a seperate non coded first aid kit for general scrapes and minor cuts.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by MikeL

Sorry a little confused again!

My boat will only every operate upto 12 miles offshore.

There is currently an argument about if it is a commercial boat or not as it is a large police rib.

If it is a commercial boat what first aid kit must it carry under the MCA codes?

Cheers

Mike

Mike, are you one of the chaps who run the new MST rib out of Portishead?

Chris

[MikeL]

I am - I am part of the police dive team. The boat was purchased for counter terrorism work but we use (when it works) it as a dive platform and for general patrol.

Regarding the codes - we have police boat codes of practise but the current argument is about do we need to comply with the mca codes as well.

If we do then I guess we need the cat C first aid kit?


Mike

[Doug Stormforce]

Originally Posted by Dan Worth

Hi Doug,

...I will stand corrected if stating that Cat C first aid kit was required was incorrect...

No, Cat C is correct if he is coding to SCV, cat 3 or 4 would be his options.

Looking back I misread you post, Sorry. The vessel does indeed need a cat C "to hand" I mis read the theme and thought your surveyor had said that the raft's Cat C kit MUST be kept in the grab bag for inspection purposes.

Originally Posted by Dan Worth

All seemed quite logical to me too......

I Agree

Originally Posted by Dan Worth

Must admit, throughout the coding experience it was at times frustrating to learn of different assesors interpretations....it all seemed a bit loose /open to interpretation (the 250mm freeboard issue /Emergency steering interpretations to name two).

To be honest much of it is not that loose, it is simply mis interpreted. When ever I have a coding inspection I am armed with the code so that I can discuss/argue anything i don't like the sound of, I also keep copies of old SCV2s to demonstrate where other boats have been allowed XYZ by a previous surveyor.

Originally Posted by Dan Worth

I am also perplexed as to how some RIBs achieve Cat 3 without shelter....I know there is a way you can show that a RIB 'tent' is available, but I know of another operator with NO shelter who has cat 3 (20 miles SH day and night)........

I have come across Cat 3 coded RIBs where they are specifically limited to 3NM by night but have the 20NM by day.

I have heard of unrestricted cat 3 RIBs but only second hand on this forum and have not actully come across one.

Getting back to the question in hand assuming the boat is coding to SCV code then cat C is the correct First Aid Kit, as already mentioned it is worth suplimenting with a day to day kit

[MikeL]

thanks again guys

mike

[Lifeboatcrewman]

Hi Mike,

any Jobs ???

its Andy, onwner of the Mabel Alice in Portishead?

see you Sunday

[Kraken999]

Originally Posted by MikeL

I am - I am part of the police dive team. The boat was purchased for counter terrorism work but we use (when it works) it as a dive platform and for general patrol.

Regarding the codes - we have police boat codes of practise but the current argument is about do we need to comply with the mca codes as well.

If we do then I guess we need the cat C first aid kit?


Mike

Mike,

The answer is no Police vessels are exempt MCA Codes. See para 1.8 Page 15 MGN280 available on MCA website.

"1.8
Seagoing police boats should be surveyed and certificated in accordance with the “Code of Practice for all Police Craft” published by the General Purposes and Marine Subcommittee of the Association of Chief Police Officers, and which is covered by the General Exemption issued on behalf of the Secretary of State."

Although I understand the “Code of Practice for all Police Craft” is under review. Whilst in effect there is not a great deal of difference between the two if it meets the requirements of MGN280 it will meet the requirements of the ACPO Code.

If you PM me with a Police e-mail address I may be able to send you a copy of the Code.

[biffer]

get the cat c pack and then make up a small kit of stuff use would use from day to day, like plasters, sea sick pill's etc, saves opening the big one in a storm and getting everything wet